Man of Doom

In all seriousness, my money would be on Geoffrey Day/Geoffplaysguitar. Not only has he been known for his Argent Metal covers of various songs, he’s also done work on Atomic Heart (a title which also features Mick Gordon, and uh, he would’ve posted it by now on the tiniest chance Hell somehow froze over and an agreement was reached with id). (also, David Levy has confirmed he won’t be returning for The Dark Ages either)

Huh. The trailer music sounded like his style too.

Co-signed, someone who also likes to be excited about things for once. Real talk though: I know I shouldn’t let the opinions of randos get me down, but I was initially super-hyped over Dark Ages. But I almost can’t even do that anymore, namely due to how bad discourse has gotten over Doom Eternal and now Dark Ages.

That throwable shield has been officially confirmed to be named the Shield Saw.

So this is a very good thread:

For those worried that “Doomhammer 40K” is somehow going to be the foreseeable future of the Doom franchise, it was mentioned that Dark Ages will be part of a trilogy (the other two entries being 2016 and Eternal). More than likely, this is a one-game detour. Besides, multiple versions of Doom are allowed to exist anyway. I mean, we did get multiple versions of Doom that didn’t actually involve any demons whatsoever (though it’s mainly just extended universe stuff). Onto my thoughts regarding the Dark Ages: This should feel like a refreshing title to play, especially as it does seem like that “monster truck” gameplay is in full effect (for those out of the loop, Hugo Martin mentioned that while Eternal would be like a “sports car”, Dark Ages would be more like a “monster truck”). Plus, the more medieval designs of the demons are very interesting (especially the more Grim Reaper aesthetic of the Revenant, and the Mancubus having a cross between its Doom 64 incarnation and its Doom 3 incarnation). Also, it’s nice to see them return to the grittier style of 2016.

Ok, so a legitimate question: For those of you who dislike how Doom’s story turned out (or more specifically, how it turned into “Doomhammer 40K”), what would you do to change Doom’s story (ranging from plot elements to the story’s tone)? (No, these do not count as answers: -“just retcon everything starting with Doom 2016 and go back to the drawing board” -“just force the IP back into stasis” -“just make a new IP inspired by Doom” -“just make a new Quake instead”) Or more succinctly, how did you want a more modern take on Doom to go (modern meaning “made within the past decade”)? Let’s just say I’m… collecting feedback.

Welp, time for my blazing hot take, as someone who had been listening to Metallica since I was literally about two or three: St. Anger needed to exist if Metallica was going to continue. Going off of Some Kind of Monster (among other things), it was clear that even with the successes of Load/ReLoad/S&M, Metallica was very much falling apart as a band. I’m talking things ranging from Jason Newsted’s sudden departure, to the Napster shitshow, and generally just the band members themselves having to grow up to raise families because the carefree days of being a rockstar were largely over. And honestly, I get it. Shit happens, and sometimes when it rains, it goes into a torrential downpour that doesn’t stop for a very long time (can confirm this from firsthand experience). Hell, not even having Fuck You Money can automatically stop the rain from coming all the same. And as a result, St. Anger was born pretty much to spill everything out there. Your mileage may vary, but aside from loudness war issues, Death Magnetic is actually pretty serviceable. Not only that, Hardwired to Self-Destruct is pretty much the closest we’re getting to a full return to form. That said, I’m still struggling how to feel about 72 Seasons mainly because it’s the one where you really start to be reminded of how long the band has been around. And it does help that the band seems to have mellowed out considerably after dealing with almost an entire decade of controversies and an uncertain future. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but I’d much rather live in a world where we did get works past St. Anger, rather than a world that ended up with “Metallica is officially no more at the turn of the millennium”. As for St. Anger itself: It’s an extremely messy album, and one that could’ve benefited from more solos and less Berserk 2016 CLANGs. That said, there’s something about it that actually does a very good job of capturing the very raw feelings behind extremely negative emotions, ranging from unrelenting frustration over unresolved trauma (Invisible Kid) to suicidal despair over how things turned out to be (The Unnamed Feeling). And yes, there is no shortage of anger here too. I would not be opposed at all to an official re-recording of this album, given that not only do the redone versions of “Dirty Window” and “All Within My Hands” sound actually decent, it would be nice to explore the album again from a much clearer headspace. (also I’m surprised that “MY LIFESTYLE DETERMINES MY DEATHSTYLE” and “I’M MADLY IN ANGER WITH YOUUUUUUU” still hasn’t become a full-blown meme yet)

Alrighty, so after being pointed to this thread, I think it’s time for me to dump my own two cents. And yes, I did take the time to read everyone’s replies so I’m not gonna be all “lol this thread is just UNGA BUNGA OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD”. I do fully admit that I’ve found myself jaded by discourse surrounding nuDoom, and while I’ve found knee-jerk reactions to be somewhat expected, it’s a whole different ballgame to be consistently faced with entire walls of text on how bad Bethesda-era id Software personally ruined that person’s hopes and dreams and how Hugo Martin personally kicked that person’s puppy and whatnot (even today). I’m really sorry, but I’m over it. It’s the exact same points over and over again and I can’t bring myself to care anymore. It’s like having to read the exact same speech of “you humor me with your arrogance and contempt” over and over. Except at least that rant was actually pretty funny. Hell, from what little I remember, vitriol over Doom 3 didn’t get this bad. I still remember that even with Doom 3, it was mainly duct tape jokes and “it’s dark in here lmao”. Not only that, I still remember the times when not even 2016 was being treated as the zenith of the franchise; I still remember the discourse over things like the “piss filter” and how 2016 needed to look more like the classic games (or even that 2016 was “too cartoony”/“not gritty enough” before Eternal came along). Lastly, if I had a nickel every time a franchise was revived with a brand-new entry which blew everyone’s minds only to follow up with more polarizing and controversial sequels (so polarizing that there are fans out there who pretend the entire reboot never happened to begin with), I’d have two nickels. That isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it’s happened twice (cough Wolfenstein cough). Anyway, here’s my operating theory on nuDoom in general (and especially Doom Eternal): The newer Doom games tend to lean more on a specific version of the audience’s perception of the Doom franchise as a whole, in that it’s seen as being “the first and last word on shoot-em-up action games” according to the general public (says TVTropes on Doom Annihilation). The Doom comic certainly didn’t help this perception (and to a very minor extent, neither did Brutal Doom). In reality, the classic Doom games were far closer to being a blend of action and horror rather than being strictly one or the other. The Doom franchise isn’t quite Resident Evil or Silent Hill, but it isn’t exactly Commando or the later Rambo movies either. Hell, Doom 1993 in particular still carries a certain atmosphere that still has yet to be replicated even with Thy Flesh Consumed let alone Doom II. Hell, it’s partially why Doom 64 is often perceived as “the real Doom 3”. Here’s a personal example (which I know for a fact was not the same as others): When I first saw the demo for Phobos Labs at a very young age, I found myself scared shitless from the intense visuals and sounds (I still remember the Doomguy’s face getting progressively bloodier as a particular highlight). I still remember that for the next few years when I got to pick up Doom II (and later Doom Collector’s Edition which not only contained that but also Ultimate Doom and Final Doom), I played through those entire campaigns with God mode. (and promptly quit Doom II’s campaign after getting telefragged by a spawn cube on the last level, like I legitimately didn’t know dying with IDDQD was a thing and it came as a complete shock) It wasn’t until I was older that I was able to clear those entire campaigns on Ultra-Violences with no issues whatsoever. It’s a very similar phenomenon as the Ghostbusters franchise; it’s why Answer the Call (the 2016 reboot) went too far into one direction and why Afterlife went too far into another. Not only that, for all the “badassery” that nuDoom is supposed to convey, there is admittedly something about it that feels… missing, almost toothless. Case in point, at no point do we ever get to hear the exact words “Big Fucking Gun” in Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal (it’s always “Big [REDACTED] Gun”). As a result, a lot of the “punk” attitudes that drove the original Doom’s development almost feels gone, if that makes sense. I’m not insisting that 2016/Eternal should have had tons of profanity and massive demon orgies and whatnot, but on the other hand, Doom’s a grown-up franchise (it’s allowed a swear word or two as a treat, just look at Doom 3). But in all seriousness, it mostly boils down to execution, and I do feel that there is something with nuDoom in that not even 2016 or Doom 3 manages to fully capture The Vibes™️ that the original had. Hell, Doom 1993 at one point almost had quit messages like: ”Hey Ron, can we say ‘fuck’ in this game?” (and that’s not even getting into the 2005 Doom movie, which not only featured endless profanity but also a lot of sexual comments, drug references, and even full-frontal nudity, particularly in the unrated cut) Going back to my working theory, I do think that a big reason as to why nuDoom is the way it is (and why it’s as popular as it is) is because of people wanting to re-experience the version of Doom that existed in their heads. And to many people, the version that always existed was the arcade-like RIPANDTEAR-a-thon instead of… well, being a riff on Aliens. But yeah, go check out this vid to see what I mean: If there is one thing I don’t appreciate all that much about nuDoom, it’s that it might end up coloring the entire franchise as being something it might’ve never been originally intended as. Namely, that it might end up turning into a parody of itself (albeit unintentionally).

Honestly, that’s what all that discourse seems to boil down to. Not only that, it’s worth noting that the whole “X weapon is required to kill this enemy” is absolute BS; while certain strategies are certainly encouraged, they’re not outright required. If anything, it’s even more encouraged to try different weapon combos and techniques just to experiment with how you can kill enemies differently. Why else do you have entire montages dedicated to how one can just instagib the Marauder with different weapons (including the Combat Shotgun’s full auto mod)? Hell, even with the one enemy that actually does require a specific weapon mod to kill (specifically, using the Microwave Beam to kill the Spirit), you can just get rid of it by killing all other enemies so that it doesn’t have any more enemies to possess in the first place. In any case, the official Doom Twitter account made the perfect response years ago (especially given what it was a reply to): Put simply, Doom Eternal’s style is simply a different style of Doom; that doesn’t make it any less valid.

All of this. It's honest-to-god so frustrating loving a game that you almost never want to talk about anymore (Doom Eternal specifically), because other people cannot let someone enjoy it. Mini-vent time: Admittedly, I’ve been more of a bad mood as of late, and I apologize in advance if it seems like I’m lashing out. Man, this thread has gone to some depressing places. Until we do indeed have hard confirmation that id’s next title is indeed a Doom game, it’s probably best not to drag this all out even further.

Regarding the topic of a “medieval-inspired” setting: My best guess is, as Agent Strange put it in his video, mostly likely an interquel between Doom 64 and Doom 2016, depicting the Slayer’s time with the Night Sentinels (as opposed to a Doom title set during the literal Dark Ages lmao). Regarding the comparisons to Heretic or Hexen or even Orcs & Elves, I would say that the former three are more strictly pulp fantasy inspired by D&D rather than being Warhammer 40K (which is far closer to nuDoom). And while it might be apt to compare this upcoming Doom(?) title to Quake, let’s face it: Consistency was honestly never Quake’s strong suit, considering how it’s basically two to three sci-fi IPs hiding in a trenchcoat.

Yep, Hugo Martin had mentioned not only the likelihood of the Maykrs ultimately devolving into Cthulhu-like beings, but also the gameplay being much slower but more powerful. I believe the phrase he used was something like this: ”If Doom Eternal was a sports car, this next game will be more like a monster truck.”

Hoo boy, already a ton of “BUT WHAT ABOUT QUAKE/HERETIC/HEXEN THO” Well, you see, after everything that’s happened the past few weeks, Doom is most likely the best bet to ensure id Software doesn’t get smoted by Microsoft. Also, it hasn’t been until very recently that the copyright entanglement issue with Heretic/Hexen has been (seemingly) resolved, but most likely wasn’t resolved before id started working on the next game. But yeah, I really wanted a new Quake title too, and I’m not feeling 100% about id becoming the House of Doom. Besides, we still have the actual reveal to check out.

Ok, so I have to be a little bit blunt: Considering that the reason for Mighty Doom’s unexpected demise was because of Alpha Dog Games shuttering without any notice, I would be a little more considerate than just #ripbozo. Just because they made a game that one may personally don’t like, that doesn’t automatically mean those behind that game somehow deserve to lose their jobs. I had to have this discussion in the past over how even Doom Eternal and its expansions turned out, and I don’t want to repeat said discussion. Besides, considering the kind of game Mighty Doom was, it could have been so much worse than what we got (I mean, the developer was surprisingly receptive to constructive criticism, all things considered). In any case, it turned out the next update was actually meant to come with an endless/horde mode of sorts (not my screenshot, however):