LexiMax

Yeah, it shows that people bought, are continuing to play, and presumably enjoying the game. And really, that's what matters at the end of the day, putting out a game that finds its audience. If all you want is the most possible players, forget boomer shooters and go make a F2P Battle Royale game or something. I bet that's something "most gamers" will play.

This comparison tells me that the market has room for both games. Also, those numbers should be read as relative and not absolute, as Steam's numbers are missing console and Game Pass playerbases.

It's funny because I actually tried Prodeus for the first time tonight thanks to Game Pass, and I gotta say, I went from ambivalent to impressed real quick.

You personally might have gone into this conversation with the best of intentions, but I think some of the people in this thread just don't like a particular artstyle but instead of leaving it at that would rather spin a narrative that developers who don't cater to their preferences are somehow shooting themselves in the foot in some big-picture way, or that the audience they're targeting somehow doesn't matter. I find that asinine, and you can find examples of it all over the thread. The reality is that the gaming market is that it's huge and has room for a variety of different types of games and game-players. If a developer wanted the widest reach, most players and largest revenue possible, they'd probably make a mobile F2P game with an art-style stolen from Fortnite. EDIT: Or...ironically...Minecraft.

There's nothing wrong with negative responses and not liking something, but I draw the line at "developers should wake up and stop catering to you" as well as implying that such an opinion has the weight of the entire gaming community behind it. That's tribalistic Gamer rhetoric and is why much of the thread seems defensive, because it's a shitty take with shitty framing that deserves pushback.

This goes both ways. They are allowed their opinion, and I am allowed to voice my incredulity as to why some people have a weird chip on their shoulder about what certain game developers choose as an art-style or what artstyles a certain segment of the gaming population enjoys.

You might not like the look of these games, but it's clear they have an audience, so whatever "customer base" you're talking about is missing that crowd. I really don't get why some people in this thread are doing mental backflips to justify a stance that's essentially "Please stop making games I don't like the look of." Don't they have enough games to play and enjoy?

You don't make a convincing case for this anywhere in the thread, just that you are personally not a fan of them and some people agree with you. Me personally, I wasn't a fan of Dusk's art-style, and don't really plan on playing HROT or Nightmare Reaper for similar reasons, but I'm not irritated that those titles exist and have audiences. I'm certainly not obstinate enough to assume that I'm some sort of unserved gaming minority (or silent majority, whatever) who needs to be catered to. I would especially not subsequently list out several recent games that I did enjoy playing, without seeing the contradiction. In short, there's loads of games out there, and not every single one needs to cater to your preferences. As a footnote, I also didn't like Prodeus' artstyle, but the game was actually a successful Kickstarter so clearly there is an audience for it.

It's extra shitty because voice actors do need to be treated better and paid more. Even with the facts of this case what they are, it would have been pretty easy for her to spin this in a way favorable to her. But instead she chose to lie through omission, as well as setting up a fellow VO to look like a scab and incur to wrath of gamers, who simply cannot resist a chance to harass someone over the thinnest pretense. What an asshole.

I once got an unintentional pipe glitch in Super Mario Bros 3 All-Stars. This is a picture of the glitch, but I think it happened in the All-Stars version of 3-9 instead. Anyway, I never came out the other end of the pipe, and I think Mario existed offscreen below the ground, but the camera tracked the ingame level instead. I could move Mario, and I was able to walk all the way to the left and right of the level trying to get back in-bounds, but eventually timed out.

It's not patronizing, you just don't like the way it looks.

For the record, here is a list of the games Kinsie mentioned. Minecraft Rimworld Jackbox Party Pack 9 FAITH Vampire Survivors Terraria Who's Your Daddy Gang Beasts Monopoly Plus Skate 3 Slime Rancher Cult of the Lamb The Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe Dicey Dungeons Stardew Valley Among Us Dorf Romantik Bear and Breakfast Cuphead Risk of Rain 2 Streets of Rage 4 I find myself looking at this list and looking back on Graf's explanation that "others" these games into a different market, and becoming more and more incredulous every time I do it. Most of these are very much "typical gamer content", and I'd say all but one or two are at the very least good enough games to where most gamers would at least try them out. The market has shifted since the late 90's. Games like Rimworld and Cuphead are not aimed at a casual audience, and games like Minecraft, Among Us, and Jackbox are good enough on their own merits to actually enjoyed by core gamers too.

Not really sure where else to post this, but giving other developers a heads-up. If you're one of the source ports that uses midiOutUnprepareHeader - either because of a native music volume fix or because you use Portmidi - if you turn on Address Sanitizer you will almost certainly run into a critical error when you hit this function. I submitted a bug for this because I thought there was a problem with the tool, but no - turns out it's a problem inside Windows itself, using a mismatched allocation and free function. Apparently there's now a bug for this in the Windows bugtracker, but no promises if it will ever actually get fixed. Since this is winmm, somehow I'm not surprised, but unfortunately, the only work around is to turn off music that uses that function when Address Sanitizer is enabled. And you really should be using Address Sanitizer, because it turns intermittent crashes into guaranteed crashes with amazing backtraces. int main(int argc, const char *argv[]) { // whoops, forgot c strings are null-terminated // and not enough memory was allocated for the copy char *s = malloc(12); strcpy(s, "Hello world!"); printf("string is: %s\n", s); free(s); return 0; } ==168232==ERROR: AddressSanitizer: heap-buffer-overflow on address 0x60200000003c at pc 0x000000423454 bp 0x7ffdd58700e0 sp 0x7ffdd586f890 WRITE of size 13 at 0x60200000003c thread T0 #0 0x423453 in __interceptor_memcpy /apps_src/gnu/8.4.0/src/libsanitizer/sanitizer_common/sanitizer_common_interceptors.inc:737 #1 0x5097c9 in main /users/PZS0710/edanish/test/asan/overflow.c:8 #2 0x2ad93cbd7544 in __libc_start_main (/lib64/libc.so.6+0x22544) #3 0x405d7b (/users/PZS0710/edanish/test/asan/overflow+0x405d7b) 0x60200000003c is located 0 bytes to the right of 12-byte region [0x602000000030,0x60200000003c) allocated by thread T0 here: #0 0x4cd5d0 in __interceptor_malloc /apps_src/gnu/8.4.0/src/libsanitizer/asan/asan_malloc_linux.cc:86 #1 0x5097af in main /users/PZS0710/edanish/test/asan/overflow.c:7 #2 0x2ad93cbd7544 in __libc_start_main (/lib64/libc.so.6+0x22544) SUMMARY: AddressSanitizer: heap-buffer-overflow /apps_src/gnu/8.4.0/src/libsanitizer/sanitizer_common/sanitizer_common_interceptors.inc:737 in __interceptor_memcpy Shadow bytes around the buggy address: 0x0c047fff7fb0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0x0c047fff7fc0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0x0c047fff7fd0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0x0c047fff7fe0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0x0c047fff7ff0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 =>0x0c047fff8000: fa fa 00 fa fa fa 00[04]fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa 0x0c047fff8010: fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa 0x0c047fff8020: fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa 0x0c047fff8030: fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa 0x0c047fff8040: fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa 0x0c047fff8050: fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa Shadow byte legend (one shadow byte represents 8 application bytes): Addressable: 00 Partially addressable: 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 Heap left redzone: fa Freed heap region: fd Stack left redzone: f1 Stack mid redzone: f2 Stack right redzone: f3 Stack after return: f5 Stack use after scope: f8 Global redzone: f9 Global init order: f6 Poisoned by user: f7 Container overflow: fc Array cookie: ac Intra object redzone: bb ASan internal: fe Left alloca redzone: ca Right alloca redzone: cb ==168232==ABORTING

Strange that this thread didn't get bumped after the actual BCS finale.

Vandalizing your own projects and blaming other people for it is transparent manipulation.

Keep in mind that if DOSBox didn't exist, none of the forks would exist either. You don't need to downplay DOSBox to uplift Staging and X, and whatever gripes you have with their development process wouldn't be solved by moving to Github.

That's what happens when you put in the work to make something as amazing as Dean of Doom. You're definitely worthy.

Odamex 10.2 has released. Download it from Sourceforge or Github. This is a pretty low-key release. Inside the box, you'll find a modest assortment of new customizations for players and server admins to play with, a good number of netcode fixes, horde fixes and an assortment of other improvements. I Am Invincible...and I can actually see! Perhaps the most obvious new addition is a new r_softinvulneffect setting, enabled by default, which changes the invulnerability effect to the visible weapon as opposed to the entire screen. The vanilla invulnerability effect has always been a bit of an eyesore, but now that we have spawn invulnerability what used to be an annoyance has turned migrane-inducing. That said, the current look is not necessarily set in stone, and we plan on making further tweaks to it in the future. Big Ol' Box Of Toys Yep, I could really only think of a single thing that would stick out as a big headliner feature. But in 10.2, the long tail of smaller additions and fixes is quite long indeed. There's even a number of new faces in the commit log. Added A new g_preroundreset setting which will reset the level between the pre-round countdown and the actual game. Previously this was hard-coded for certain gametypes and not others - now you get to play with it. You can now change the length of time messages appear in the obituary feed with hud_feedtime. This setting is also surfaced in the menu. Item counts now show up in the automap. A new cl_centerbobonfire setting which emulates the ZDoom 2.x behavior of centering the weapon when firing. You can now remove the 20 count lost soul limit with co_removesoullimit. Offline, there is no limit, online it's limited to 128 lost souls. Thanks, Mia! Horde now respects sv_nomonsters. Test your horde maps behavior free of monsters. Boss monster projectiles now have the same palette shifts as the bosses themselves. The projectile behavior itself is still identical...for now. Don't give us any ideas. The hordenextwave console command now respawns players. Thanks, Mia! There is a brand new "AUTOMAP" graphic in the automap options menu. Thanks, Acts19quiz! Support for the new Steam WAD file locations. Changed Horde bosses now lose their "sparkles" on death. All non-RGB sliders in options menu now display current value to the right. con_notifytime and con_midtime now accept non-integer message timeout times. Certain variations of the scoreboard surrounding round and lives logic had less-than-useful configurations, these have been improved. Fixed A significant "pump fake" misprediction of online monster behavior was fixed. Multiplayer vanilla demos did not play back at all, now they should work, though there are some remaining assorted issues. Ultimate Doom E2M7 didn't always get detected correctly in the previous map behavior fix, now it should. Online, certain trigger-once line specials were not properly cleared by the client, or improperly able to be triggered again by a newly connecting client. Now these issues have been fixed. Scrolling floors were being mispredicted in client/server by a factor of two, now they scroll properly. Secrets areas were not getting cleared properly when triggered by other players - now they clear properly. Online, scrollers were being inited twice when restarting the map, this has been fixed. Horde bosses now trigger special lines again. Horde spawns were capable of being pushed around by scrolling floors, now they stay in place. Online, glowing sectors were incorrectly reinitializing when restarting the map, this has also been fixed. Sector flags did not properly save to a savegame, now they do. Single-activation specials were not being cleared on the client, resulting in a desync. This has been fixed. Horde monsters no longer get crunched by doors. A_HealCorpse did not give resurrected monsters height, now they do. judgment.wad now loads correctly. WDLStats now properly count the last frag in deathmatch modes. Fixed instances of doubled sounds when using A_PlaySound. That's about it! Before I go, I'd just like to shout out the amazing "Hordes of Odamex" project, which will be shown off during QuakeCon. Not only are there 50 !(!) brand new arenas for the nascent gamemode, but a unique set of custom monster waves that had been developed just for this WAD. How is this possible? It's all thanks to the flexibility of Horde, the power of DECOHack, and the creativity of the amazing folks over at The Hellforge.

Unfortunately not off the top of my head. I suspect there's some Unity timing bullshit going on, given that the issue wasn't called out on consoles or on other people's PC's.

I didn't want to snitch on myself, but yeah. For what it's worth I used the same approach for Unity Doom that I did when I wrote the initial uncapped implementation that was used Crispy Doom, which was copied for many many other ports. The Unity code I wrote was from scratch and used no Crispy code, but I just reused the same idea. Sure. On PC specifically, I imagine the official port, while better than DOSBox, is still eventually going to get replaced with a real sourceport if the player is at all interested in Doom...unless they really like split-screen. But for someone just wants to try the game out for the first time or doesn't even have a PC, it's far and away the best official port for Doom that ever existed. Not having to explain away "Yeah, the music is kind of jank, the framerate is bad, it's only 4:3, the best maps are third-party, but trust me there's a cool game in here" is just....a relief.

"Okay, I'm convinced, how do I play it?" "Well, first you download DOOM2.WAD, then you download a source port..." "I only have an iPhone and a PS4." "..." I mean, you can try, but I prefer showing friends by playing some good old-fashioned split-screen on Switch.

I'm saying because I believe that the Unity port is the best version of Doom ever released by id Software on an objective scale. I also think it was the second best version of Doom ever released relative to the environment it was released in. DOS Doom will forever be #1 on that list for being an amazing DOS game in 1993, but it bitrotted quite poorly, and I cannot imagine trying to convince somehow how great Doom is with DOOM2.EXE in DOSBox in TYOOL 2022 - assuming their gaming platform of choice can even run DOSBox. I personally will always prefer playing source ports because I'm already a superfan, but if I want to show the game off to someone, I'm using the Unity port on Switch.

....I think you're trying to equivocate "Official" with "Good" which, I suppose I'm not sure where your getting that definition equivocation from. Regardless, taking your equivocation on its face, I actually agree with you. I think the source ports can be an altogether better experience than any official port could ever hope to be. I just also think that people who just buy the game off Stream or the console stores should also have the ability to have fun with Doom without having to install a source port.

Not at all. I've written code for several of them, and I'm proud of the work I did. However, there is the simple matter that source ports are hamstrung where they can't possibly have the reach or convenience of official releases. Doom's license precludes its distribution on many platforms outright, and the fact that the original Doom game assets are still proprietary means there will always be some setup involved for the platforms that allow it. Before the modern Unity port, the official ways of playing Doom all stank, so realistically source ports were all you had. The Unity port is the first time I can ever recall a re-release of Doom being anything other than a quick cash grab. Not only that, the Unity port is on all of those platforms that source ports can't touch or is a pain to set up on. A first time player playing Doom can just click on any of the following links, buy the release, hit "Play", and have a grand old time: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2300/DOOM_II/ https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/doom-ii-classic-switch/ https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/doom-ii-classic/9plt62lrf9v7 https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP1003-CUSA15595_00-DOOMTWO199400000 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/doom-ii/id1470090748 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bethsoft.DOOMII&hl=en_US&gl=US Source ports aren't bad, but you shouldn't have to use a source port to have a good time with Doom.

Bethesda + modern id Software are doing the old games more justice than independent id Software ever did. Not counting the actual release of course...but years down the line id left their old games to bitrot, unworthy of a decent glow-up like Unity Doom or Nightdive Quake, instead getting bare minimum, buggy ports with no extra features. It is a crying shame that unless you had a PC and knew how to work source ports, up until the Unity port there was no good "official" way to play Doom.