taviow

A bit of subjective criticism but man what happened to the midi in map 09. Personally I think it used to be badass, now it feels impactless (to me). Of course I'm influenced from having heard it on repeat for like 3+ hours while playing Solaris (Celestial Petrichor now I guess). Those high notes are a bit grating, don't know how I'd feel about listening to it dozens of times now but I didn't have a second thought in the previous version. Regardless, if this fits the intended vision for that map better then I think that's cool. I guess I just grew a great fondness for that map as it was before, as it's one of my favorites in the set.

With that said, I want to insert even more positivity here by saying that this was a wonderful experience and I'm so glad I played it. One of the most beautiful and inspired works I've seen here in quite a while. I'm simply blown away.

Hey @stewboy, wanted to comment since I love Map 31, as a huge fan of puzzley games like Myst plus 90's dungeon crawlers and stuff like that, it's obvious that the map would appeal to me. That said, it obviously doesn't appeal to everyone and I think that's just fine. I think it's very important that you don't change your entire mapping style or personal philosophy just because someone didn't like a map. That's the same thing as dobu gabu maru not making puzzles anymore, or making all puzzles easy because someone hated a puzzle. Or insane gazebo not making slaughter maps anymore because someone criticized Sunder. It would be unthinkable, and I find it unthinkable that you would feel forced to change your outlook because decino had a bad experience with your map. I think that, as long as you have a target audience that *does* enjoy the map, and enjoys your work in general, then you should keep at it like you have been. I personally wouldn't want Grey Dwarf to be any other way. I'm a fan of that map. There's a time to listen to criticism and a time to stand your ground. I think it's time for the latter here now, but that's just me. I hope you keep at it.

In my personal opinion, I think you should try to get the experience that is fun for you. If that occurs in a lower difficulty level, then so be it. I'm sure @bofu spent time fine tuning each skill level so that the wad is able to reach a wide array of players.

Hey, just wanna say, if this is your definition of failure then I can't wait to see your success in the future. Best of luck in your endeavors!

I'm sure this will be an immense pleasure to play. Thank you! I will dive in as soon as I can!

Wanted to give 21 likes but I only have one! Hah.

Hello guys! Been playing this wad for the past couple of weeks and I'd like to report a bug, I just played The Gripping Hand (this map certainly gripped me where it hurts...) and these revenants never teleported in: Anyway I want to congratulate you guys, great wad, very good stuff, looking forward to the remaining maps.

I think the point was not about the physical size of the map, it is that a 30 minute map is pretty long. Either you want short and explosive (I'd point out the recent release Overboard as an example) or you want 30 minute maps, which I'd consider lengthy maps.

Man, it's IMProbable I would have found that on my own.

I am both excited and terrified!

Congratulations on this mapset @bofu, I'm finding it positively delightful and I love how you grow as a mapper as the maps go on. You're building something really special here for sure.

Hey guys! I just wanted to drop by to share my complete and utter joy of having completed Sunder! I started playing perhaps 6ish months ago playing on and off, without any real commitment because I just didn't see myself actually finishing it. Weirdly enough, now that I played all the maps I can say this, but across all of the maps Grinder was perhaps the one that was hardest for me overall and presented the greatest roadblock because I just wasn't ready to tackle it at all when I got to it. It's a very intense difficulty jump in comparison to the first 5. But regardless I kept playing, eventually I got through Map06, and little by little I actually managed to do the first 14 maps. Took a break again when I got to 15 and I had no idea when I'd return because the maps were just so big, it felt exhausting to even think about playing them. But I couldn't leave it alone, it kept gnawing at me that I had to play the new maps, since I had to finish what I started after all and upon playing them I discovered the absolute joy that these new maps are. I've been on an absolute binge ever since Map32, it's still one of my favorite maps of the current set, after I beat that final fight I just kept anxiously wanting to play the next one, I would get off work and play Sunder as soon as I could pretty much every day since. Then came Map16, and I did have some trouble with that one, but I prevailed. Then 17 and 18, both of which albeit shorter have some really nasty fights (the crushers, the courtyard, the throne room, shudders), and then the utterly brutal Map19 which I absolutely loved, the combination of cramped fights in buildings with the occasional big fight and all along the way the increasing anticipation, the build up to getting the BFG and then being finally able to unleash it upon 4000+ monsters, it's just an unbeatable feeling and it's the most bombastic finale of all the maps. And I'm just blown away by 20, I'm still right now reacting to that gorgeous final room (but the Cyberdemons were really mean!), and I have to say it's the most inventive map so far, perhaps the most beautiful as well. Absolutely incredible stuff. The light sequences have truly put the visuals on yet another level entirely. Here's a picture to celebrate this occasion: Well, that was really something. I feel incredibly grateful for these maps, it has been an absolute blast. I absolutely can't decide between 32, 19 and 20 as for which one is my favorite, but I have to really think about it because recency bias would have me name Map20, but then again that Map19 finale is unmatched, I don't even know. Anyway, it feels like a real accomplishment to have done this, what an absolutely insane mapset, fittingly I might say! All these maps have been absolutely fun and incredibly inspiring, and literally made me a better played through an absolute trial by fire. Certainly kindled a newfound love for the slaughter genre. Thank you very much @Insane_Gazebo.

I believe it was @skillsaw who recently said that there's a hole in the Doom 2 bestiary for a squishy flying monster. And I think that pre-crushed cacos are a really neat solution to that lol. By the way, how goes the wad? Is it approaching idgames status?

That's an interesting strategy. Is this a thing in NG+ as well?

Has anyone else ever had a lack of archvile flames happening in Sunder? Happens to me while playing in dsda-doom, be it software mode or OpenGL. I haven't played a huge number of things, but it seems a problem very particular to this wad as far as I've seen. It's reproducible in the sense that I've seen it happening elsewhere (decino stream of Map 18 iirc). It's fairly mysterious in that I can't tell what triggers it or how to fix it, although it eventually seems to fix itself. But I will say that there is nothing quite like trying to do the archie pool fight in Map 15 or the final battle without Archvile flames, though thankfully you still have the sound to guide you somewhat.

How nice that Doomguy is going to have a holiday either way, but especially on HNTR.

Been replaying some of the maps and this guy can't seem to come out in map 11: Played it twice, happened both times, so this seems to be reproducible

I'm not an expert but apparently when you mess with them too much such as copy and pasting stuff or drawing something on them they tend to unjoin.

Not a criticism but rather a neutral comment I guess, but I think the NG+ versions of map 04 and 05 might be weirdly easier than their counterparts because of having an early BFG. Map05 NG+ does have the archvile wave to spice things up, but I thought that this certainly applies to Map04. On the whole I think this is fine and I don't want to relay this as "criticism" because the levels are so fun, but I think that after hitting a sweet spot in difficulty with Maps 01, 02 and 03 (03 is amazing in NG+), on the whole 04 and 05 delivered a bit less in that sense. 06 was crazy and really fun in NG+ though. I would say that what the best NG+ maps have in common is that they give you the BFG later or you have to claim it with some effort. The big problem with the BFG is that you can just delete archies. It more easily neutralizes an otherwise serious threat. But nonetheless once again I don't think this is real criticism or something to be fixed. This is just an observation I guess. Certainly wouldn't want to impose my opinions on difficulty upon a wad.

Hey @mouldy! I played through these maps and I absolutely loved them. I was just thinking what a shame that it was over when I got to map08. NG+ is a great idea and I can't believe this was not a thing before. I guarantee a lot of players will appreciate the extra hard versions of the levels. Anyway I haven't experienced any bugs myself so I just want to say that these levels are great, really funny and kick ass. Thanks!

Thank you, that is already very helpful. I suppose it's also hard to explain things that probably come very naturally to IG. So I expect it's probably a bunch of hard questions to answer.

Hey @Insane_Gazebo I just want to ask a few questions... well, a central question that I can separate into several different questions. But basically what do you do when you have a blank slate? I'm just wondering how you go about starting a map which will eventually be such a huge monstrosity (especially map 21 where this statement will be even more true). How does your pre-mapping work looks like, I suppose you already have sort of a conceptual idea already in mind before you start? How do you go about finding all these textures, since each map nowadays seems to look almost entirely distinct from the others? Is your work linear, like do you always literally start with the starting room for the player? Or do you just draw a big square and start filling it in? I know that you do mapping streams, but I'm just kind of wondering about the start of it all. I hope it's not too much of a bother, I'm just fascinated that you manage to do these things.

On the one hand I agree based on common sense somewhat, on the other hand I just want to see how far IG would go to create some sort of ultimate magnum opus of Sunder in MAP30 or something. I think now while the linedefs are limited, monster count might still be pushed farther. And besides I don't know, I think Sunder is targeting a very specific demographic who does want the epic scale stuff. So perhaps in that sense some people might want him to go even bigger and to see how far it can go.

Might be a dumb question, but why is it impossible for ports to fix this, even the ones that want to keep the experience as vanilla as possible? Isn't the problem essentially that this value is stored in a short instead of an int? Why is this a thing that cannot be improved?