garudave

The slow burn pacing and the flow of the action make Misri Halek special in my mind. I've always preferred Toxic Touch personally but they both have this sort of continuous simmer that makes them unique. Engaging action without the bombast you see in a lot of memorable maps that have come out since their time.

Map 4 of Alien Vendetta has a bangin' dance track that is a bit out of step with most Doom music, but it has an addictive energy that adds a lot to the level. Also any map that uses Rise of the Triad music, particularly Goin' Down the Fast Way, tends to get bonus credit from me. Recently played thru map 15 of Valiant for the first time and between the music and the shit-grin-provoking combat, it quickly became one of my new favorite maps.

I'd start by making a very solid boomer shooter with simple and appealing graphics. Then I'd make it a platform for user-created content, including software for creating mods and maps that gamifies the process, i.e. have tutorials or even a mod/map-making campaign to on-board new creators. Building the community into the game experience would also be a major goal. Having a single application that includes single-player, multi-player, forums/live chat, mods, maps, editing software, and maybe even lobbies where large numbers of players could hang out and frag each other. I think something like that would be the only way to out-do the classic Doom games. The idea would be to start with a strong vanilla experience but then hand control to the players with hopes that they would make the vanilla game obsolete eventually through continuous improvement. As for the story and core game, I'd like a vague, hell-focused plot that is there in service of the aesthetic. The gameplay can be similar to Quake or Dusk, focusing more on nailing the feel than reinventing the wheel.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at in the op, you're generally getting plinked on from multiple angles in many of the middle maps and it becomes grating. Deadwing is also a demon when it comes to placing chaingunners above/below your sight line or in windows that just fuck you up. The opening room of map 31 comes to mind, there are many angles to cover and it requires a meticulous route. I really don't mind meticulous gameplay but it works best when mixed in with other types of gameplay in Doom imo.

Sounds like it's a me thing lol. Thanks for the pro-tips guys, maybe I just need to sharpen up my game. Might just be an off week for me.

@GarrettChan: I fuckin' love map 15 of Plutonia, so count that as a total contradiction of my stated opinions. I guess I do have a tolerance of memorization in map design, just not when it includes following a script-like sequence of actions. Which Moonblood likely doesn't, I just started to get that feeling as I was tackling the levels. Edit: I actually am a fan of Stronghold too lol, so I guess that makes me sound real dumb.

@Deadwing: Thanks for the tips! I've decided to take a break from playing Moonblood but I'll keep that in mind when I inevitably return to finish it. The maps are interesting and unique so I don't regret the time I've spent with it, just feeling a little more frustrated than I usually do when Dooming. Nice of you to not take my comments personally. @P41R47: It's not so much that I mind cover-shooting in Doom, it is mandatory when you're fighting hit-scanners after all. I think being pinned down over and over again can get tedious though, just as excessive circle strafing can get tedious. As to the comments about Ultraviolence, I think you're right and functional difficulty settings should fix some of my gripes with a given megawad. @Not Jabba: Thanks for the tips. I do use the chaingun for its stunlocking function, but not so much the BFG cover-fire option. I'll have to practice that technique. I think I'll watch some Doomers and see if I can pick up other techniques, particularly for blind-playthroughs. Thanks for the replies guys, this is helpful! I think part of my issue might be a little bit of burn-out, since I may be over-indulging my Doom obsession. I'll update this topic when I end up finishing Moonblood, since now I have canonized some sort of vendetta with it lol.

Sure, the mapset in question was Deadwing's Moonblood. Specifically once I got to the middle third, I started to feel less and less desire to continue. Mining Site, Hellish Shrine, and Dobu Gabu's Exam all annoyed me, but BFG Experiments was the map that put the nail in the coffin for me. I just felt like every encounter had a specific solution that I had to piece together through trial-and-error. I was reluctant to mention which megawad it was because Deadwing is so active here. So I just want to stress, there were plenty of maps I enjoyed in the set. My favorite was Toxic Treatment Lab, which has some great tension with rad-suit management and very fun encounters that never feel tedious or abusive (to me anyways). I'm trying to come at it from an angle of "help me enjoy these maps", in case that isn't clear. I've beaten/enjoyed maps that were significantly harder than the ones in question, and I really enjoy Plutonia, which is maybe more egregious with the hit-scanner placement, but never hit me as hard with trial-and-error vibes as Moonblood does. I know I can just reduce the difficulty, but I'm trying to appreciate the design approach, and I don't think watering it down to make it more palatable is doing it justice, if that makes sense.

I'm not really looking for instructions on how to play Doom, I've been playing Doom exclusively for about 6 months now lol. I understand how to use cover and what enemies to prioritize. I'm only trying to contend with a feeling that certain maps aren't fun because of the way hit-scanners are used. When I find myself having to memorize a whole map to get through it because of the attrition damage overdose, I say that's a bad map. If each room has 3+ angles of hit-scanners, it gets frustrating and old fast. So I guess another question is, how much memorization do you want in a Doom map? I understand maybe the issue is I'm playing pistol-starts and ultraviolence, but I've played and enjoyed a lot of maps that I found challenging, it's just the ones with the fucked up chaingunner/shotgunner placement that get on my nerves. I feel like a good map should be able to be played reactively (to a certain degree), without memorizing which angles to pre-fire your chaingun when entering each room so you don't eat instant damage.

I recently had an experience playing a megawad that made me quit my playthrough. I found it interesting because one of the main things that stood out to me was abrasive hit-scanner placement. I've played Plutonia so I have some tolerance for being gunned down, but these hit-scanners were annoying me to no end. The thing that made the placement so abrasive was a continuous emphasis on SWAT-team clearing every angle of every encounter. It was to the point where you had to expose yourself to other hit-scanners to clear hit-scanners, and sometimes a continuous stream of that sort of gameplay. For me, it felt antithetical to the momentum-based gameplay of Doom, emphasizing instead cover-shooter style gunplay, sometimes for entire levels. One of my favorite levels of all time is Fortress of Bullets from TNTR, so I'm not opposed to fighting swathes of chaingunners and shotgunners. My enthusiasm dries out when I have to find the one spot in a room where I don't suffer attrition damage, and pop out systematically to clear out the damage sources. Obviously I didn't make this topic just to whine or start a flame war. I was just wondering if people enjoy this sort of gameplay in Doom. Maybe someone can break down how to have fun in a level where you're constantly pinned down and unable to use the luxurious movement options available to you in this game.

In cramped rooms where circle strafing around a group of monsters isn't an option, stick to one side of the room to draw the enemies in that direction if possible. Once they jam up on each other on that side of the room, you can start strafing around them and thin the herd. Kind of hard to explain but I have had to use it a lot lately. Learning to get the monsters to move where you want them to just comes with practice.

Hey @Kyka, just wanted to drop a message thanking you (and the other project devs) for your fantastic contributions. I'm a relatively new Doomer and TNT Revilution is my current favorite megawad. It hits all the aesthetic notes I want as well as providing exciting gameplay. In particular, I want to say Transduction is the best Doom level I've played yet. The simmering action building to that hellish crescendo is peak Dooming. Managing to make a genuinely creepy level in a 30-year-old game engine is super impressive. Also want to praise Pharaoh's Claim since you're credited on that one. Dunno if the quest for the BFG in that level was your idea but as a pistol starter, that was one of the coolest and most memorable experiences I've had in Doom.

I would recommend you check out Final Doom if you haven't yet. TNT is about as difficult as Doom II. Plutonia is a significant step up in difficulty but it's kind of a natural progression from the stuff you've played already. Aside from that, the thread linked above about skill progression has been my guide lately. I can also thoroughly recommend TNT Revilution, the community sequel to TNT. It has a great balance of visuals and challenging gameplay. None of the levels get out of control but they are as demanding or a little more demanding than Plutonia's levels. It's a fun set of maps and my favorite that I've played through so far.

Two-shotting cyberdemons always feels great. Aside from that, I think cacodemons always feel satisfying to kill, especially in some wads where you have to rocket a whole cloud of them. The aforementioned SSG pinky kill is always fun as well.

I recently played through both wads for the first time. They hold up extremely well and there are maybe 5 maps between the two sets that I wouldn't want to play again. TNT's emphasis on architecture sticks out to me and elevates a lot of the maps. I found myself admiring some maps in that set that also kind of irritated me. One example off the top of my head is map 18: Mill. It's too damn big and the encounters are mostly flat but the grand design of it appeals to me and it pops aesthetically. There are some great maps peppered through the set like Steel Works, Central Processing, and Mt. Pain, but most of the set is "mixed bag" maps like Mill. Plutonia competently sizzles for most of its runtime. You can isolate chunks of Plutonia that are just great. The first 7 maps are extremely good, maybe even Knee Deep in the Dead good. After that, the quality becomes a bit roller-coastery for a while until you hit map 15 and the secret levels, which all thoroughly bang. Then the sizzling returns until the final 4 maps, which are iconic and really cement Plutonia's legacy. If the Casalis had been allowed to release Plutonia as a 15-20 map set, I think it would be held up as an unquestionable classic, or at least more than it already is. As to its worthiness as a commercial product, I would certainly pay for Final Doom. Even without new weapons or enemies, the maps really speak for themselves. There's something to be said about presenting mapping talent as the main feature of your product. Maybe id Software could have gone about it better back then, but that doesn't diminish the greatness of Final Doom imo.