Ravendesk

Fun set, really enjoyed it (even chainsaw focused maps xdd - I appreciate that you changed its sound though, it's so much less annoying now). Lots of creative ideas and cl4 teleports usages, and I just really like tiny maps with tiny combat puzzles like that. 01, 03, 05 and 08 are probably my favs in the set. Here are fdas with saves (dsda-doom 0.26.2), first two maps are recorded on -skill 4, the rest on -skill 3. I started with -skill 4 because I assumed it was intended blind since you reversed the difficulty settings, but switched to skill 3 after first two maps because I felt like it was too easy. Finished all maps except for 31. saturnia-fdas-raven.zip The one thing that was a bit of an issue for me were confusing switches. There are tons of switches in each map and I still have no idea what half of them did. Especially in maps 02 and 09 (had to use UDB for the latter). Map 09 finale was cool, but I only realised after several retries that When I figured that out, fight became significantly easier.

It is one thousand kilowads.

Also I just realised one of the maps we got in most recent random /idgames races, fits the description extremely well: A Very punch you in the face man Christmas 2.

To me personally the most important releases of the past few years were Fractured Worlds and Jumpwad. First one feels like one of the highest-profile releases for challenge scene and the second one is a revolution in platforming genre. Both are not megawads, but more focused experiences, having 9 and 7 maps respectively (playtime is still quite high, though). I think overall we are slowly drifting away from old-school 32 maps megawad format as the way to make AAA release, towards more varied formats (often it's something more concentrated). We'll see, though. To support my point, other examples of significant but shorter works are 10x10, Overboard and Heartland (although I haven't played the last one). All of them may not have magnum opus wad feel that you might be looking for, but I think their importance is not less than that of Eviternity.

Also check out Vanguard. It gets pretty slaughtery while keeping the difficulty very reasonable. Previously given advices are also good except for maybe Haste that might be a bit much of a leap after go 2 it (its a very good wad though).

Isn't enemy roster basically doom 1 roster now? xd

Well, that's not an answer. From your subjective point of view are all maps equal or some are still more enjoyable than others? What about movies, do you think they are all equally good?

So, in your view, all doom maps are exactly equal in how good their gameplay is?

Lmao, this is an absolutely useless definition, because it does not allow us to say anything about 99.9% of released maps. At this point you could have said that there is no good or bad with the same result tbh. What is even the value in defining "bad" platforming as theoretically unbeatable platforming if I can just say impossible platforming and convey the meaning much better and people will also understand me better if I say "impossible" instead of "bad"? Word "bad" can mean so much more than that, and you are just trying to make a perfectly fine word completely useless. Which, I guess, aligns with your view of "good" and "bad" as reductive terms, but that's only because you try to give each word exact meaning instead of trying to interpret what people mean when they say these words in a certain context. Ok, I think you are trying to do something quite detrimental to the doom discussions as a whole here, so I have to elaborate. Language is meant to convey meaning and it's context-dependent. When people say "this is a good map" what they really usually mean is "I enjoyed this map and I think more people would enjoy it if they played it", but what the hell is the point in saying all this lengthy stuff if you can just say "this is a good map" and literally everyone (well, almost, I guess) will understand what you mean by it. This is why languages have words that don't have a strictly defined meaning - it's convenient to use them. Does that mean that people struggle to define why they think the map is good? Maybe in rare cases yes, but most of the time they either have said "this map is good" in addition to other comments, or they are lazy, or they don't think it's necessary to elaborate because it's quite clear why to everyone in the context of the ongoing discussion. And omg, I was actually replying in a good faith before that, but at this point it appears that you actually want to commit crimes against doom conversations so I have to stop you right there. Terms "good" and "bad" are not reductive, they are very rich words that can convey a lot depending on the context. Please stop trying to shame people who use them and please stop trying to make these words useless by only allowing them to define trivial things.

It's pretty simple, when doom 1 came out, nothing like that existed, it was a completely new experience for a lot of people and immersion level was unmatched for an fps game. You won't be able to get the same feeling out of people who played modern fps games and impress them the same way. I personally got back into doom partially out of nostalgia, too, I remembered the days I played doom 1 as a kid together with my dad (he was controlling the movement, and I was aiming (with keyboard) and shooting) and decided to replay doom 1 and doom 2. However, the reason I still play it is not because of nostalgia (I would have moved on if I didn't discover certain pwads), but because it has so much content that's exceptionally good to play. Are you trying to get into "all art is actually subjective therefore no criteria for good vs bad exists in games" thing or are you genuinely clueless? There are many factors that combined, result in great gameplay, some of them depend on engine (how movement feels, weapon feedback, monster feedback, controls, etc), some of them depend on how the engine is used in a level (pacing, monster dynamics, space constructed to make it feel good to move though and to fight in, "flow", balancing of "danger" time vs cleanup time, etc). Combined, these factors make many modern doom maps match or surpass modern fps games in how fun and engaging it is to play them. So, yes, "fun and engagement" is subjective, but all the small things that result in fun and engagement are not. Of course, we cannot measure the quality of gameplay by measuring these small things because the whole is greater than sum of its parts in this case. So the criteria I propose here is if the people who "have seen it all" in modern games (including modern "boomer shooters") can still get engaged and get absorbed in doom for a prolonged period of time due to how well the maps play. And I'm sure that if all doom had to offer was iwads and 90s wads, said people wouldn't be (even though there are some gems there, too). But with the mapping scene we have today, they absolutely are. And just in case, before discussion derails into objectivity vs subjectivity in art - yeah, "objective is just a collective subjective" blah blah and all that, sure, we all know that, but let's use words to convey the meaning, not to argue about definitions. Yeah, I agree with all three, I more or less had the same in mind when I said "certain mechanics that feel very jank today". I would also personally add "the way game registers switch presses" to the mix xd

I think there is bit of a mess with terminology in this discussion. I think when a lot of people say "doesn't age" they imply "aged well". Because I don't see a meaningful contextual difference between the two. In that regard, while doom (as an engine) definitely has certain mechanics that feel very jank today, those things are all minor, and as a whole doom (as an engine) has aged very well. You mention that people play with modern features like freelook and graphical enhancements, however the fact that a significant part of the community plays doom in a way it was originally designed, with no free look, with software (or software-like) rendering, with original sprites and weapons, and only use higher resolution as QoL basically shows that "the original doom feel" aged greatly, and doom plays absolutely fine even today. Otherwise playing with freelook would be universally preferable and only speedrunners would play without it. It's not nostalgia, the formula just works. However, I made a remark "as an engine", because I think it's important to distinguish between "doom as an engine" and "doom as original games themselves" in this discussion. If we ignore the mapping scene and just look at original games as they were, they aged significantly worse and without mapping scene doom would be pretty much a dead game. A few people would replay it out of nostalgia and there would be a very small speedrunning scene and that's it. And for a good reason, imo. Gameplay of iwad maps is not good enough to hold to this day, even though it was mindblowing when doom came out. (Obviously the presence of new content as is makes a difference, not just the content with gameplay that evolved far from iwads, but I think the latter is a huge part of it) Rambling a bit, but what I try to lead to - if we return to 90s (and early 2000s) wads - technical achievements of some old wads are very interesting from a historical perspective, yes, and there are nostalgic elements for some people, but the thing that makes wads age well is the gameplay, and most 90s wads didn't age well for this particular reason - with few exceptions their gameplay uhhhhh let's just say doesn't hold up. And what we are left with is nostalgia, historical interest, admiring innovation, whatever else was listed, but not the actual timeless ageless thing (good gameplay).

Map 31 UV-Pacifist in 2:26.11 zip: jf231p22611.zip video: https://youtu.be/h6ZnIDvSGFY

Just curious if this is dead or not yet xd

Some fills. Map 12 UV-Pacifist in 0:47.17 - jf212p04717.zip Map 58 UV-Pacifist in 0:41.11 - jf258p04111.zip Map 58 UV-MAX in 5:10.77 - jf258m51077.zip

Map 44 UV-Pacifist in 0:04.91 zip: jf244p00491.zip video: https://youtu.be/lBNiv4Fa0-Q Map 56 UV-Speed in 1:02.89 - jf256p10289.zip

Map 37 UV-Pacifist in 0:05.94 zip: jf237p00594.zip video: https://youtu.be/KZow23QaIjw Map 37 UV-Stroller in 0:14.86 - jf237str01486.zip

Map 07 UV-Speed in 1:21 - jf207spd12177.zip zip includes a failed attempt with a faster route

My mapping process is very chaotic, I work on layout parts, visuals or fights depending on what I feel like doing right now or what I have ideas for. Although when doing detailing I always try to keep in mind where I want to expand the map and add new areas or connection, so that I don't end up needing to delete it later. For fights specifically I often try to make a draft of a fight along with the layout, so that I can change it right away if it's not working. Or at least to imagine what kind of fight can be here and account for that beforehand (e.g. if I expect to fight archviles here do I have sufficient LoS cover or not). I honestly think any process works as long as it keeps you engaged with the map. If you are stuck on drawing layout - playtest some fights, layout ideas will come later. If you don't feel like designing a fight in room A, detail room B for now, that distraction might get your brain working in the right direction and the fight ideas will come as well. But if that doesn't work for you, and distraction makes you less motivated - well, do it all in order then.

Not sure it's a good idea to use this thread to assert that something should not receive a cacoward.

Map 07 UV-MAX in 4:19 - jf207m41980.zip

The following maps seems to have blockmap problems (if run with dsda-doom, there is no collision in them): E3: 18 26 30 34 37 38 E4: "I love dogs" total slot 169 don't remember the relative slot, and map 36

Wow, can't believe you didn't mention the best entry in series, TNT Threevilution. Sorry but I couldn't pass by without correcting you here. To OP - @Gibbitudinous - I guess that's exactly why you couldn't connect the dots and find the main concept of the series - you were missing the most important entry! Please go play it, this playthrough should answer all your questions.

Oh right, I avjed to SSG as well. Props for that, that was a cool progression and a cool way to start a wad, really nice how that whole area develops.

I have already finished E1, these are so good. Thank you Nights for making it possible.