akinata

1/ dark mode works well with original maps too. how dare you try to force onto me your vision of how OG doom maps should be played on? does that warrant a general change of gzdoom menu options? no. the reason why devs hid some light mod from the option menu was already explained. and your argument was not the reason. it was because of something petty. 2/ so you want to encourage mappers to use mapinfo by... hidding some option from players??? i am am modder myself (tho not on doom, yet) and know very well that some just don't know how to read even when you write in big red letters something crucial just beside the download button... however i rarely read the readme given with doom mods myself. i already konw how to tailor my own experience for doom and am fine with it. if some mappers wants to force me to play with their own light mode, they can. if they do'nt i will just play the way i like and never complain about that. 3/deemed acceptable doesn't mean it is the best. some just like to leave the choice (or they just don't care) to the player to tailor their experience as they like. or they just didn't realised they could use mapinfo to force certain options... which again didn't matter much since people can just set whatever they feel like is best. if some mappers really wants the players to play only a certain way the can force it with the mapinfo. (i am repeating myself here.) it is a big deal. changing light mode is a major visual change. and that glow can really ruin the epxerience of some mods. (maps and gameplay mods) of course you don't care since you prefer software light mod. so because i prefer something you don't like i am sudenly illegitimate? of course there is ppl complaining since the reason for that change was petty. i don't care about legacy as it's something ppl fight over for the best OG doom visuals. the difference here is that dark light mod is THE ONLY light mode without the glow (while keeping darkness, dark). that is major itself. why don't you understand that there is many mods and maps that work best with it. there is also alot of ppl who DO NOT CARE about playing doom like how it looked back in the days. they seek instead something that look better, beside the maps and mods which requires an immersive darkness.

mappers can just force users option via mapinfo. thats what we are told to do if we want dark light mode on maps that requires it. can't other mappers do the same with their maps, if software light mod or whatever is THAT important for their map? the consequence is many maps (and some gameplay mods) ruined that now require extra input from the player to set up correctly, all for the "correct experience" you guys are trying to force upon us.. many didn't thought of forcing a light mode in the mapinfo because they knew players can set it up themselves correctly. (or it wasn't possible in the past? idk) but apparently a bunch of angry old school mappers didn't want to use the tools provided to them and instead enticed gzdoom devs into making a global change for everyone.

the reason is clear: a few random mappers complained about players not playing on their map with the "correct" light mode and so asked gzdoom devs to hide some light modes from the menu so most players would feel forced to play the way those mappers wanted... when mapinfo exist and hidden light modes can still be used anyway... the devs agreeing to that is concerning.

the solution is simple. letting the user choose what they prefer via the menu option. simple isn't it? if the mod comes with maps, options can be enforced via mapinfo if the mapper really wants to force players to play with specific settings. if it is a purely gameplay mod, i guess most doom player are inteligent enough to understand how to change the light mode to get a better dark and no glow. or reverting back those changes when they change mods... or still play with glow if that's how they want to play.

reality: change software light mode to dark light mode. done. that was difficult. change mod. go back to software light mode. done. now i have to copy paste "gl_maplightmode 3" from a txt file everytime (because i don't remember what to write exactly all the time.) whenever i use a mod/map that runs better with dark. (thankfully i can create a shortcut.) if i want to experiment within the mod i play, i now have to check all numbers because i don't know what the others are beside 3 for dark. and in the case of some specific TC that requires you to play with tons of diferent settings, they usually give you a modified engine with a .bat very user friendly.

while its good that mappers get pushed to use a set light mode for a better gameplay experience, in no way should a player be forced to use a hidden option to make a gameplay mod work best because some devs thought it was good to get rid of a QOL feature. some mappers alos like to let their player choose what's best for them. we are not babies. we can tailor our experience too. there is a difference between having a condensed menu with limited options (but you still have access to everything if you wish for) and completely hidding some options out of the ingame menu that were there for a very long time. especially when it is essential for alot of mods already. 99.9% of what? you meant 0.1% right? that's some random numbers. all you need is an off feeling that semething doesn't look right. and they'll look for some settings. IMO changing light mode is a game changing visual option. (in CountryCide you'll have a totally different ambience depending on the light mode used.) as for player playing with dark light mode...: all QCDE players use dark light mode. blade of agony and asches 2063 (some of the most popular TCs) plays around dark light mode. some known gameplay mods such as lost in darkness and litdoom also have its playerbase. even brutaldoom, the most popular doom mod, have an integrated flashlight. as such works great with dark light mode especially when playing on modern-ish maps such as its Eday campaign. you can say whatever you want, gzdoom hidding dark light mode feels very arbitrary.

it doesn't concern dark light mode then

your way of playing doom is not my way of playing doom. there is no proper way of playing doom, only proper ways of playing maps (IF the mapper wanted to create a map with a psecific light mode in mind for gameplay or immerison purpose.) the confusion comes from trying to use THE light mode closer to vanilla out of many similar ones, because there is some purist who wants the OG experience. the issue is not dark light mode, which exist mostly to get rid of the glow (which also give nicer darkness and better natural lighting IMO.) getting rid of that glow is essential for many mods and maps that aim to have either a "more modern" lighting or simply better "darkness" immersion. i am not asking to put back dozen of light mode that may add to the confusion, i am asking for the dark light mode specifically, for the reasons mentionned above. i would be fine with a software light mode without glow too (even if i prefer the dark light mode's smoother darkness.) but that's extra work when we already have something that fit the bill. of course i can still use dark light mode but having it inside the menu is a QOL i want back.

what are you saying exactly? they got rid of dark light mode so that people don't cheat in competions? sorry i do not follow...

^^^^^^^^^^ that's what started it.

you can think this forum and zdoom forum represent all the doom players opinion all you want, i don't care. this is a pointless conversation about forums popularity.

^^^^^^^^ people are saying to me that gzdoom devs are adament on their decisions. what do you want me to say? i just call what i see by its name. and it is called getting rid of QOL by hiding settings from the ingame menu. dumno what you are trying to make me say here... yes. i do want to know what motivated that kind of decision.

there is not one reason for zandronum devs to even think of doing the same anti player friendly act of removing options inside the menu. and if they ever do it for some obscure reason, Qzandronum exist. yeah, one year after and gzdoom devs seems to be happy to get rid of QOL features for the sake of "playing the way doom is meant to be played". i am interested in knowing exactly why gzdoom did this change. the "casual not knowing what they are doing" or "mappers get confused on what light mode they need for their maps" arguments are cheap.

i hate that a bunch of people decided to hide some options because they felt the need to force players into using what they believe should be the way to play doom. unless those players are invested enough to care to seek a less obvious way to still use the settings they like. zandronum did have an update not too long ago but changing the light mode options isn't a priority. why would it be? i play on Qzandronum nowerdays. and there, dark mode is on by default for everyone :) (which is the best light mode for QCDE anyway.) i saw that one too. way less voters tho. 5 years later, less people lurking in the forum. at a time where gzdoom changed its light mode availabilities. the issue i see in those threads are people confused on which is THE vanilla like light mode. some light mode were too similar which added to the confusion. dark light mode is unique tho. you would be mindblowed then to see the amount of ppl who just stick around discord or steam to exchange opinion instead of going on official forums to have better visibility for the devs... no one is arguing about changing the lighting system. we are talking about putting back a setting that already exist, inside the menu, for QOL purpose.

most people would indeed not care enough to complain on some doom forum. i am here just because i once created an account just to congratulate a mapper that made something that i felt needed congratulation. else i wouldn't be here. i would have just gone to discord instead. "there is only 3 people complaining about your issue on this forum" is not a valid argument if you really want to hide the dark option from casuals, just put it under a special menu option that unlock it... just how there is a full option menu you can click on in gzdoom already to unlock all options... i don't see having multiple light mode as a problem at all. it is a user choice. and again, if some creator absolutely wants their maps to e played how they meant to... => mapinfo. simple. i can create a shortcut with the dark parameter. but then what if i want to change the light mode on the fly to test things out? i have to write it down now. and memorize what every number means... what if there is some casual players who liked the dark light mode but now is confused on how to set it up? it would be so simple to just have the option inside the menu right? also: "unpopular". there wasn't that much votes but dark reached a bit more than 10%. in front of "standard" and "legacy". whatever gzdoom devs decide to do next, getting rid of an easy way to get rid of the disgusting glow was not a smart move. zandronum didn't got rid of the setting and there isn't any problem with that. also i don't see any forum threads about how gzdoom has too many light mode and that it's confusing.