DRON12261

Found a critical bug! When I complete E1M1 in ADO2022, I get this after intermission screen: It uses MAPINFO and UMAPINFO, but for example Woof! works with all of this with no problem. UPD: My config, if necessary: doomretro.zip

But, those 10 maps were masterpieces. Re-played them recently. Too bad he's gone from the mod scene, of course.

I think you better close this project and start a new one, because this project has already got a kind of "bad reputation" and some people are unlikely to come here. Try for that time to think hard about a new project, which will not be based on some other project, for, as I said, it will automatically impose on you a number of obligations and expectations. Take some theme, challange, setting and take it as a key element of the project (a good example, this is Blocked-Out, where you had to use only special texture pack, or 666crets, where the trick projects, this progression through the secrets). Write down all the requirements clearly, without any vague wording, so that everything is unambiguous. And as an example, attach one or two ready-made maps (you can ask a familiar mapper to participate in this). In fact, an example of some work will better tell you what the project is all about, while a verbal formulation will only clarify it all. And also promote and hold your vision for the project, and keep a close eye on everything that happens within it. Good luck.

In fact, I even had the idea for organizing a second community project where they would take the maps from this project and start texturing them (using, for example, the 32in24-15tex.wad texture pack). At the same time, it would be forbidden to texture the map to its own author, it should be done by another person. I would look what they did with my map then) So take it on, maybe later you can somehow develop this idea).

Well, actually, that's enough. I'm quitting the project and freeing up my slot. And I also strongly insist that the OP and the Project Title remove all references to it being a remake (this also applies to the "Resharpened" subtitle, replace it with "How id did it" or "The way we remember it" or something like that, but not "Resharpened", "Reforged", "Remake" and all that stuff, let @RastaManGames have that subtitle.). If it's not a remake, there's no need to mislead people. Honestly, I stopped believing this project could do anything, it seems like no one knows what it's doing here. And I don't see the point in trying to help the project get back on track anymore. But if you do continue, please do better than "TNT: The Way We Remember It" (it was awful).

Well, I guess I can dilute all these discussions with screenshots of the progress I've made. I expected to finish this weekend, but there still wasn't as much time as I would have liked.

Here's what we're going to do. Everyone will think carefully this week about whether or not they are ready to switch to this format. And that goes for me, too, whether I'm ready to take on the responsibility of running the project. You should think very carefully about whether you agree with every (I repeat, every) suggestion without exception described in these 2 posts: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2635947 https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2636149 Likewise, you must consider (this also applies to @EPICALLL as well) that my word will be the most valuable in the project. During work, every note I make must be taken into consideration and only I will make the final decision on whether or not to allow a map or certain changes. I will be very tough on the project, but also fair enough to provide a sufficient level of comfort within the requirements of the project. Why is that? Because if there are any disagreements after the transition to the new format, if someone starts to promote their own vector of development, different from the fixed, and all that stuff, then I just can't keep up with the project and I'll go burn out. I have to be sure that you are willing to go along with all these changes and conditions. Unfortunately, I had the experience of running the project, where I allowed myself to be soft in this regard, allowing a few equal leaders of the project, which equally tried to lead the project on their own, resulting in a split began, the project participants themselves began to move in different directions during the work. This did not end good. I do not want to repeat this mistake, and if there are any doubts, disagreements, etc., I would rather refrain from participating and not touch anything. Please don't give an answer right now, think it over carefully. I will wait for an answer by Saturday. Of course, I will also start preparing a new topic and discord server at the same time. Everything will depend on whether 80% of those involved in the project will unconditionally(that's the key word) agree with the course or not. Just as among these 80% must be @EPICALLL, @RastaManGames, @Heretic926 and @A2Rob, as you are directly key figures in this project and have contributed to it. Otherwise I just won't risk starting it all and will leave the project, leaving everything as it is, without my intervention, but I will provide you with MAP20 before i leave.

I should warn you, I am not an English speaker, and I use a translator to communicate here, so I hope the whole implied meaning of the message was not distorted by the translator and I managed to catch all the semantic errors. I just corrected the text again, and if you've read it before, read it again just in case.

I see that many people agree with my statement, but not everyone has responded yet, so I'll wait one more day before making a final decision. But I suspect where this is going, so maybe everyone should just hold off on working on the project for a week until I have a new topic completely set up. However, I can give you an inside look at what I definitely plan to change/invent: 1) I will 100% create a discord server, which is where the workflow will take place. Within the forum doomworld will be harder to build it. In discord will be easier and more convenient to organize different information blocks, multi-directional channels, etc. So it will not be the usual for many community project, where 1 mapper = 1 map. I want to put together a permanent team that will always bring something to the project. Just as possible through the discord will build some friendly relations between you at the expense of a freer form of interaction. 2) Be prepared that with 99% probability all maps in megawad will be modified/improved/fixed/partially reworked in some way. If you're the "I'm the only one who can work on my map and no one else dares touch it" kind of person, you might want to hold off on getting involved. 3) You won't be able to sit with a busy slot indefinitely. I'll do a callback every once in a while (presumably one or two weeks) to check on your progress. You'll have to show at least some minimal progress on your work, otherwise, on the next callback, in case of repeated lack of progress, your slot will be released and will no longer belong to you. If you are no longer of significant use and do not intend to, you will be excluded from the project server. All those who will test on a permanent basis, who have already created at least one map, who will be a composer or an artist of the project (If we then have people like that) will be eligible for permanent membership in the discord server. I also understand that many may be very burdened by different things from the "real world" (in fact, I am now, too, one of these), but you have to show at least some progress, to show that you are still here, and you try to do something, "Room by Room". 4) I won't let absolutely everyone into the project. Everyone has to pass some sort of "test" before joining to see if they can match the quality of the project or not. What this test is, I'll tell you later. I'm not going to severely limit and allow only "super duper pro mappers". No, it will be okay if you have some or certain weaknesses, but will be able to lay a good enough foundation. In that case, your weaknesses will be covered by me, or other project members I will allow to do so. But completely boxed and novice works I will have to reject, because in that case it will be easier to do everything myself from scratch. 5) I will try to pick out some weaknesses and strengths in the permanent members of the team, and depending on this myself to offer a particular slot, assuming that this is the one where you will be able to prove yourself the best. But you can also appeal this if you really want to take a certain slot for some reasons. This won't be much of a practice at the start as I'm not sure what a particular mapper can do (except maybe Rastaman)), but as you get more involved it'll become more and more apparent. As for the project itself, I'm going to convert it to Boom and use UMAPINFO, EMAPINFO, ZMAPINFO, MAPINFO for the widest coverage of target ports, as well as the ability to use certain tricks of a certain port (like thunder in Eternity Engine and ZDoom). The Boom format itself will significantly increase mappers abilities, + I'll also later on throw you a couple of Example.wad on the server with examples of applying these or those chips to Boom. Switching to Boom almost no effect on existing maps, they will not break. On many of the other details I still need to think carefully. I also have an idea to prepare a certain texture pack (namely to merge resources SCYTHE.wad with 32in24-15tex.wad), it will free up your hands regarding texturing, and also, given the fact that all maps will be modified in some way, I can control the failed moments of texturing, thus avoiding a lot of departures from the requirements on the bar quality. But I can't confirm this for sure yet, I'll see in a week. P.S. I looked at your map, @EPICALLL, and now I understand exactly what you wanted to do originally in terms of the concept of this project. But as you understood, I don't share that vision and I personally don't accept such a map (but about specific final rules later, though given my activity last week, you can guess which vector of direction I'm following). Nevertheless, right now I would leave it as a super secret map on the MAP33 slot (given the points I described above, it's safe to do so), if you so wish. Since this map is something like "the first breath of the project, which is what started it all". You will also have a permanent membership in Discord, as you are the founder of the idea of this project, as well as the one who gathered many of the guys here, myself, I would never have taken on such a project without the push. And, at a minimum, you have every right to see the entire development process from start to finish. And yet, you can try your hand at a project based on work from RastaManGames, Heretic926. Try to analyze their work well and adopt some of their style to your own. In fact, so increase their mapping skill, when every time you raise your bar and try to reach it, as well as adopting the experience of other more experienced mappers. Also for everyone, another good example of good geometric detail I can highlight the Whispers of Satan megawad, so you can run through it this week. I'll try to pick up more good examples from the outside later on. And so on to the roles in discord: A permanent membership on the server will already have: RastaManGames EPICALL Heretic926 A2Rob On something of a " trial period " are on: DoctorNuriel DynamiteKaitorn MoiraHeart Andrea Rovenski stupid (tsocheff) Ideally you would pass that very aforementioned test before I add you to the team. But since you are one of the first to enter the project before it is restarted and since you might have already started working, I'm making an exception for you. And then everything will depend on how you show up, so be prepared to put your best foot forward.)

So, after a week of thinking, it's time for a breaking point (although it's really a breaking point only for me). I propose to completely reboot this community project (keeping the current work, but refining a certain part of it). And I need to be at least a second leader of the project, if not the main leader, who will control the quality of maps and finally set a new strict rules and standard of the project, which will follow all without exception under my control. I will be honest, I think this project started very poorly and spontaneously. Maybe it was supposed to be just another "just for fun" project like "YourWad: How we remember it" and stuff like that, but I think that Scythe deserves much better than that. I want to bring this project to a great result, where experienced mappers would work, where the project would be very carefully structured process of development and testing, where the project would have a leader with a clear vision of this project and all its members would follow him, which would avoid the final idea chaos and generally possible low quality megawad. I want to implement a project that would not be ashamed to run and pass by Erik Alm himself. I don't know, @EPICALLL, if this is your first experience in running a community project or not, but I don't think you can pull it off, it's not an easy task, even for experienced person in the community (RastaMan can confirm that, he had repeated experience with these things). In theory, I could create another remake thread, but I don't want to divide the local community involved in this project, as well as a duplicate megawad in general. If the overall decision is positive, this topic will be closed and I'll create a new one with a detailed description of the project and conditions for participation. All current works will migrate there, but a small part of them will be finalized either by the author or by me. I would need to get confirmation from the authors of ready-made maps and those maps that are in development, that they are ready to pass them for further revision, if necessary. Of course, while preserving the primary authorship of the map, the author of modifications will be listed as a secondary author. It is not necessarily engaged in revision by me. I can appoint for this mapper, whose skills I will be sure, usually it will be those who will be good in general, to participate in the project, who will have a minimum of revisions, who will partly understand where the project should lead, and who himself will be willing to express a desire to do it. I'll create a new topic in about a week, I'll need time to think through all the details. Also, I might get in touch with a couple of experienced mappers I know, and probably get them involved somehow. I will probably even set up a separate discord server to provide a more convenient development process. If the answer is no, I'll just quietly leave this project. I want everyone involved in this project to let me know what they think about it: @EPICALLL @DoctorNuriel @DynamiteKaitorn @RastaManGames @A2Rob @MoiraHeart @Heretic926 @Andrea Rovenski @stupid (tsocheff)

Looks like RastaMan has some weaknesses after all. Or he is just tired (especially after such a rush). There's really a lot of work to be done here. Let's start with the critical "bugs": - Here you can fall into the grave and get a softlock. - It looks like you were trying to make deep water, and it broke a little too. You can see how the shore sector breaks off at the edges. - You should make the passage a little more spacious in height here, the player will constantly bang his forehead against the ceiling as he descends and "pinball" will start in the passage. Now for the main point. The outdoors section looks more like a mock-up than a finished location. You seem to excel at some locations built by people rather than chaotic locations shaped by "nature" (well, or maybe you're just tired). To the church part with the archvile I have no complaints, it is done in your style. But the outdoors part needs a lot of work, it's not ready: - It almost repeats the original map in detail (except just with smoother walls). You can actually see this even in the comparison screenshots. It's hard to tell where the original is and where the remake is. - Poor texturing, there's not much to catch the eye this time, not much detail, the whole screen is occupied by this beige texture of stones. But at the same time here was an attempt to dilute this monotony: I think you should take a little break after two days of extreme mapping. And if you suddenly don't want to take the rework afterwards, I could rework these points with your permission (preserving the original authorship of the map, of course). I managed to free up my evening a little tonight.

How long in minutes/hours can the map take? And what is the target port of the map and the map format itself? I assume it's UDMF for GZDoom, given the idea?

Look, @Matacrat. The project uses Boom map format. The vast majority of ports that can work with Boom can also work successfully with UMAPINFO (DSDA, Woof!, Doom Retro, From Doom With Love, Nugget Doom, Modern ZDoom and many more). Why not then expand the number of slots, so that everyone can enter the project? If you need help with cross-port implementation of various xMAPINFO, I could help, since I have successful experience with such task.

Three maps in two days. Looks like RastaMan locked himself in the basement and whipped himself for maximum productivity))))) Well, I'll be able to watch it in about three hours.

Whoa! I'll have to see that later, I like the Stanley parable.

I think you should still rely more on your players' feedback, which you definitely have. And less of your "idealistic" boundaries, which is supposed to be for the constant development of mapping skill, but just in moderation.

@RastaManGames This time I couldn't find anything to complain about, heh. Well, while MAP04(RastaManGames) followed too strictly the original, and MAP05(A2Rob) allowed itself to depart from the original as much as possible, but I think still within acceptable limits, this MAP03 is about what I myself would like to see from all the other maps, and I am now making a map in about that vein myself: You recreate the same locations from the map, but kind of differently, in a slightly different your way. You can slightly change the global geometry of the level (resize it, change the layout of paths and rooms a bit, add more new paths and locations (as long as you have the key points of the original map implemented)), but they should still be similar and resemble the original quite well. And of course with raising the bar for quality. RastaManGames this bar has shown: - Proper texturing (alignment (a post about tips on this topic I posted a little earlier), selection of a good color scheme and following the original color scheme (this is also very important), there are transitional textures, etc.) - Sufficient level of geometric detail, there is no "absolutely flat" rooms, all locations are filled with something, everywhere there are points of interest that may catch the player's attention. If you stop almost anywhere on the map and start looking at it, you can start to see more and more of the seemingly small things, but they all combine to make a good visual. - Attention is paid to working with lighting, everywhere in his rooms there are both the light sources themselves (lamps, sky, mb some lava at someone, etc.), and the light itself, coming from them. And the light shouldn't come in a single solid sector. At the edges of it should be scattered additional sectors that go all the lower level of brightness, ie lighting gradient (good work with lighting as demonstrated by A2Rob, he had moments when from a lit location under the sky were pits leading into the dark pieces of location, and the light at the bottom of the pit was a nice gradient). - Corrected errors in the original map. Let's be honest, today Scythe has a huge amount of "flaws" and a few bad decisions, both in terms of balance, and in terms of visual and overall leveldesign. That's why this remake exists. We should not just make maps beautiful, we should make maps good in terms of leveldesign and fix all the shortcomings of the original. - Good balance. Scythe may have had moments where it was overly easy or overly difficult. These moments (going back to the last point) need to be corrected as well. We need to build a good difficulty curve both within the level itself and within the megawad itself. @EPICALLL I believe that it is MAP03 that every mapper should take as a basis, MAP04 is one boundary with maximum adherence to the original, and MAP05 is a second boundary with maximum departure from the original. However, it is not recommended to go to such extremes, and you should rely more on MAP03. And also follow all the text described above.

Thank you. I hope I can get it released in May. The map itself won't be particularly long (I guess I haven't put the combat into it yet), but I've tried to pay a lot of attention to various details and raise the quality bar compared to my last release. More screenshots (not entirely up to date, though), you can check out in this post. Well, the feedback itself, I think I'll collect it on the release, for here started offtop)

Duplicate my post about texture alignment from another thread, take note, perhaps for someone it was not obvious point. In general, the topic of texture alignment is very important in mapping, such a seemingly small detail can greatly affect the perception of your map only in a positive way: Try to pay more attention to texture alignment, make sure the textures are seamless, don't tear off halfway through, and also don't bend on the corners of the walls, where they probably shouldn't bend after all. Control the alignment of the textures can be additional partitioning linedef on sub-linedef, and have each set the correct alignment, while at the same time making sure that the texture on the splits seem to be looped. (in the spoiler a small example from my WIP map about texture alignment)

@A2Rob It's a good map. I guess I would single it out as an example of as much departure from the original as possible. It doesn't bring up as much of the original map at first, but as you go through it, you start to notice a number of subtleties that were in the original. I think that's a pretty good approach. The current version of the map has only one very critical problem, which is very easy to solve - you need to place more suits, and preferably in the most poisonous area. It's almost guaranteed to run out of suits before you've completely cleared that location. And the player will be forced to take damage while going through the level, which is a very bad thing in terms of leveldesign. I think 2-3 extra suits equidistant in the zone itself would be a great solution. One of them should definitely be in the yellow key arena itself. Also, there are points with unaligned textures, they need to be corrected as well. Otherwise good. Amused how you turned one machine gunner from the very end of the original map in a whole influx of "liquidator squad") Regarding a little advice on texture alignment, I'll now duplicate one more of my recent posts below on the subject. Map by @RastaManGames now has a perfect state. The lamp is really hypnotizing.

Well, I'll take the slot now and give you the map next month.

I will see the changes from @RastaManGamesand the map itself from @A2Rob tonight (About 13 hours later), now while I'm at work [bruh].

That's a great result. Perhaps here in some places even too strict adherence to the original, but it does not contradict the requirements in any way. I think that this map can already be put in the header of the topic as a reference map. The only thing I have a couple of small remarks to correct, all of them concern a few moments of lighting: - This is where you should do the shimmering light, as it was in the original. It was one of the most memorable moments of this map (at least for me). - Here you forgot to tweak the light levels on the barrel and the box. - Overall there are not enough light sources in this room for it to be that bright, maybe you should add lamps. - And it's too bright in this little aisle too, maybe you should add a shadow cast from the open side of the aisle with the lighted room. Otherwise I don't have any more comments, the map is representative.

Of the maps must all work from skillsaw, A Doom Odyssey 2022, Scythe 1&2&X, Perdition's Gate. In fact, the list is a dozen times more, but these are the first works, which I would recommend a must-have. Also, if for some reason you passed over the official ones, Plutonia and No Rest For the Living. Of the mods Dusted Pandemonia (my favorite), Nobody told me about id, Smooth Doom, and the original pure Complex Doom (without any addons, mostly Complex Doom v27b2).