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I agree. Mouldy please please PLEASE make Going Down 2. I will worship you as the one true god of Doom mapping if you do it.

INTRODUCTION I’ve been thinking about how Doom maps use keys/switches for progression for a while, and I sort of just wanted to let all my thoughts out on the subject. Thus this post. Let me explain: THE THREE KEY FORMULA Ok, so I was playing Nostalgia 2, the new megawad from myolden and the reason I bring it up is as an example of how it uses keys. In particular, most of the maps’ progressions follow what I like to call the “Three-Key Formula”: Get red key > Open red door > Get blue key > Open blue door > Get yellow key > Exit This is the most common way I’ve seen keys used in Doom mapping, and it makes sense why. Keys are designed so that players can feel like they’re progressing through the level instead of just killing a bunch of monsters then leaving, while also extending levels by adding another objective for players to complete. So using this formula where each key opens another area that leads to the next key, is the most linear and (as I would argue) least interesting way to route keys in your Doom maps. That’s why I brought up Nostalgia 2 specifically because after 20 maps of the above progression it really started to grind my gears. There’s nothing wrong with using the Three-Key Formula, it’s a tried and true classic for a reason. I just think there are more interesting ways to use keys in your maps. For example: THREE KEYS (Non-Linear) This one would be something like: Red key > Blue key > Yellow key > Use all to open exit The best example for a map like this is Doom 2’s The Citadel, in which you must wander around the map collecting all the keys. And therein lies the problem with this design because the more nonlinear a map is, the harder it’s going to be to lead players to required objectives. So you can end up running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to figure out what you need to do. There are several solutions for this, one of them being just good level design: Make it clear where the keys are and where the player needs to go to get them, and let them go from there. Or you can increase the linearity of the map by making it so that one key leads to another naturally. Whatever the case, I’ll say that this type of non-linear key usage is my favorite type and I tend to love maps that do this (Valiant’s Engineering Disaster to name another example). But I understand why it’s a bit less common then the Three-Key Formula because it’s a lot harder to get right, as you have to account for the multiple paths players could potentially go down and balance your map accordingly. OTHER KEY ROUTES Of course there are also other ways to use keys that don’t involve all 3. One example is optional/secret keys like the black key in Swim With The Whales’ titular map. Or you can do a hybrid linear and nonlinear map, for example. Something like: Red key > Red door > Blue key > Yellow key > Exit Or you can use less than 3 keys, but I think I’ve said all I have to say about keys. Let’s move on. SWITCHES AND SWITCH HUNTING Unlike keys, where you can only have a limited amount, you can have as many switches as you want in a map. However, this comes with a drawback because with many switches in a map, it becomes much harder to tell what switch does what. This can lead to maps that overuse switches to suffer from (as MtPain27 termed it): “What the heck did that switch do?” syndrome. This is much more common a problem in older maps, though frustratingly some newer maps do this too. Another issue is that hitting switches is much more repetitive an objective then gathering keys. If we map out a diagram for it, it’d be like. Hit switch > Opens new door > Hit switch > Opens new door > Hit switch > Opens new door ……………. Hit switch > Exit Though switches are also more versatile in what they can do than keys, so this repetitive process rarely matters. However it can get tedious in a long switch hunting map like, AV’s Misri Halek which has tons of switches you need to flip to progress and it can start to get irritating over the course of the levels long runtime (The main reason I don’t really care for Misri Halek. I know, sue me.) However the upside to this type of switch hunt is that it allows for much more control over where the player can go compared to keys, and that can be useful for balancing, pacing, etc. SWITCH HUNTS (Non-Linear) There are very few of these types of maps but I thought I should bring them up anyways. The progression would be something like: Switch > Switch > Switch > Switch ….. > Exit The immediate problem with this is obvious because finding 3 keys in some non-linear maps can already have you lost easily. So having you track down a bunch of switches is going to have a much worse effect. An example of this type of map is Ogdoad from Epic 2, where after the key progression is over, you must track down 8 switches scattered across the map to be able to exit. If that sounds bad, that’s because it is… But one way I’ve seen this problem solved is from a map I adore called City Heat from Community Chest 2. In this map, you have to hit 9 switches to be able to exit the level. However each switch is in a numbered building and the map tracks your progress by letting you know what switches you have and haven’t hit. This allows for much more bearable non-linear switch bunting gameplay, and I wish more maps would take up this design. CONCLUSION Ok so this is already long, but I of course have to mention that most Doom maps of course use a combination of keys and switches for variety’s sake and there are more design quirks and theories you can come up with when you consider this, but that’ll be an essay for another time. I hope this was helpful or interesting to… someone. Maybe try to use some of these non-linear/non-traditional progressions in some of your maps!

This post is literally one word and it has more replies than anything i’ve ever posted on this website. Love this.

Ok, my map is done. I think is the finest map I've ever made so far, it's amazing Map 21 Name: Cliffside Village Music: "Haze" by Eris Falling from the Revolution! Midi Pack Download: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841814524385951788/1219091322560970792/DMIUM2_E5_Map21V2.wad?ex=660a0a44&is=65f79544&hm=b193bd5906e54f0f83c00992d82e11edd1e98d7ad313d8d4b5b6a72efb2345bd& Changes: I'm only gonna be updating this if bugs or other complaints are found.

Bro is going to have a stroke when he gets to Map19 Or Map20, Map21, Map27, Map28…

Status on my map, just to let ya know: It’s pretty much done, I just need to balance the encounters, rework the progression a bit and add difficulty settings. The level geometry/texturing is pretty much set in stone at this point. Also I have a more recent version that I haven’t uploaded yet but the one I did upload is pretty close to what I have now.

In no particular order: Lost Civilization 05 : Mountain Village (one of my favorite maps visually and both the gameplay and secret hunting are great) Overboard 02 : Skeleton Coast (mouldy never misses) Overboard 05 : Archi-Pelago (see above) MyHouse I feel it had to be included Machete 30 : Seriously Doomed (one of the best map 30s I've played and the ending is hilarious) Eviternity 26 : Transcendence Eviternity II 01 : Elysium Auger; Zenith 12 : Altered States (LC's Nightmare and Going Down's Insanity on steroids) Struggle: Antaresian Legacy 11 : The Indomitable Mastermind Rowdy Rudy II 1 : Storming The Bayside Base

Kept you waiting for an update, huh? Finally got around to fixing up some of the jank in this. Still a bit to go and I want to add more maps to this set at some point but I like where it's at right now. Changelog (v1.1): Download above, give it a shot.

I’ll give a Top 10 list of my personal favs. Why 10? Uh… Because.. 1. mouldy. He’s just the best, no contest. 2. skillsaw. Obvious choice is obvious 3. Antares031. 4. Jaska. 5. Kim Andre Malde and Brad Spencer. Putting these two together because they don’t really appear outside AV but their work in that wad is so good it qualifies them for this list. 6. Eternal. 7. Ribbiks. Could be higher if the hype is to be believed but I’ve only played Swim With The Whales and a handful of others so I’m basing it only on that 8. Dobu Gabu Maru 9. Xaser Acheron. 10. Doomkid

Oh I thought I added impassable linedefs there, I’ll have to fix it in the next version

Oh, Nostalgia. First played this one about a year and a half ago and it’s now my go-to comfort wad because it’s easy and fast. I have lots of good memories of playing it in class keyboard only (because the mouse makes too much noise) while only half paying attention. Good times. I think it may make my “Top 10 wads list” but I’m not sure. MAP01: Dragonaut It’s a Map01 in a classic style megawad? Like everyone said, it’s short and pretty nothing. The thing that is most memorable about this map, at least to me are the 3 secrets, one of which has a backpack in it (in Map01!) which is very fun for me since I’m almost always a continuous player. That being said, it’s aight.

Map 21 Name: Cliffside Village Music: "Suffragette City" by David Bowie (placeholder probably) Download: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841814524385951788/1216016066841673758/DMIUM2_E5_Map21V1.1.wad?ex=65feda36&is=65ec6536&hm=45207e1adde7c38fbf49e287776117dc5bbc54d14af94d69222e341c97987214& This isn't finished but it's mostly finished. I still need to do lighting, a bit more detailing and fix some minor bugs. Quick screenshot:

I always thought his face was just really fucked up.

I’ll take the open MAP21 slot, since natural scenery is my jam.

Both of these are pretty similar cases because I think they’re only considered “overused” because of a previous influential epic map (Demonic Hordes and The Mucus Flow) using them. In these cases, a map has to really live up to the expectations that associations with those maps bring and most of them just don’t.

Honestly, with the glut of X wad vs Y wad / “why do people hate X wad” threads I’ve seen, this thread being a parody of them is something I’m all here for. Just think it could’ve been executed better…

Yeah, truth be told, that was a bad example because I more have an issue with the BFG ball and how it can feel random rather than the actual randomness itself. But that’s a whole separate can of worms I’d like to not open at the moment… How did I not think of this?! ;)

Ok, so let’s be honest: I feel like we all hate dying to 80 damage revenant missiles. It feels unfair to be killed by something so random and out of your control. I understand why random damage is in the game. It adds variation to the combat, without making the game that much more complex. Plus the boys at Id were DnD nerds so it only makes sense. And I have played a mod that removes the randomness from damage rolls and it feels like it’s missing something. So some randomness is good, but the ranges are so crazy. 20-200 damage for a berserk punch? 20-80 damage for a revenant missile? And don’t even get me started on BFG tracers… that’s a whole separate rant. I feel like the damage ranges should be more close together since this amount of randomness feels out of place in an FPS. Oh yeah, another point. Highly random damage rolls encourage save-scumming since you can do the same thing and get different results due to the RNG being different. I speak from personal experience with this one. This is a minor issue for me, it’s not something I super hate every time I play Doom but it’s just something I’ve been thinking about a whole heck of a lot. I feel like I could write an entire paper on it. But that would be too long and no one would read it so I’ll just post here :) What do y’all think about the RNG and specifically the damage rolls?

Welcome! I love this thread, it’s so cute. I hope you find some good mods and enjoy your stay. Also GBV rules!!!! Bee Thousand is the absolute best lo-fi record ever!

I used to watch him when I first got into classic doom since I didn't know any better, but thankfully I didn't watch him for very long. The screenshots people have been posting of his thumbnails speak for themselves. Clickbait, misinformation, garbage takes, pumping out content, the works. He sucks, 'nuff said.

I was going off the other guy's point about TNT Map04 and giving an example, though I am aware of how dumb it sounds now. My bad.

Going Down MAP05 blows TNT MAP04 out of the water.

I’m gonna say it so get your collective groans and boos out now…. MyHouse.wad Also Dark Universe, which is horror and atmosphere on a Star Wars: Dark Forces inspired space station. One of few Doom mods I’ve played to give a few genuinely good scares though it does mellow out a bit in later maps.

I feel like Doom modding is so diverse at this point that it's music can't really be nailed down to one distinct sound. It'd be like asking what music goes well with a tv show. Okay, what episode are we talking? What scene? Of course there are some picks that will generally work better than others but it depends on the needs of the situation. For the most part though, you can really just put anything as a Doom level soundtrack. Going Down's demented clown music is a good example of that! That being said I don't think I can really have a horse in this race because like 75% of the time I mute the music when playing Doom and put on something else, though more recently I have been trying to listen to the music a bit more.

Why would you do that to yourself?