halfdude

Calm down zoomer. 1. How is it insulting to zoomers by my desire not to be confused to be one? Are you so insecure as to get insulted that I don't want to be associated with you when I'm in my 30s? 2. Are you actually claiming to automatically make more of your lives by sheer awesomeness of being a zoomer and nothing else? lol 3. I didn't come here looking for an argument, more like: everyone here was immediately hostile towards me right off the bat and the act of defending myself in earned equal hostility somehow makes me the asshole.

As far as I'm concerned, I have much more respect for Dooms 1 through 64 than I do for the two modern games. Part of it is bias as they're the ones I grew up with yes. But I also have a hard time seeing all these new guys, Hugo, as truly ID. Call me a purest but as far as I'm concerned ID software died when the last of the founding members left and Bethesda swallowed it up. As said before I'm also not a fan of Hugo Martin direction he's taking series. So with that said, I take the story for the original games in higher regards then the story in the recent 2. So as far as the codex entries I'll take whatever is in there that doesn't conflict with the previous games and leave the rest. As said before I hate needless 'reboots' and as much as I respect original ID software there was no need to make Doom 3 'as if Doom1 never happened.' as it doesn't even conflict with the plot of the original. If two games can exist parallel to each other then there's no need to say the newer one overwrites the previous. I feel like that's what Doom 2016 tried to do too as it's codex says it's taking place in 2145 the same year Doom 3 took place. It's a needless attempt at writing Doom 3 out of the canon when they could have just as easily thrown any other year like 2256 or something out there. As I respect Doom 3 more than Doom 2016 I'm leaving that bit of the codex OUT.

How the hell is me not wanting to be assumed to be a 12 year old zoomer at ALL relate to me being defensive about my head canon? I'm going explain this one more time before I give up and fuck off for another 14 years. I'm open to critique, by all means critique away, it might even help me find holes in my timeline I never thought of and force me to rethink some things. The responses that are annoying me are where people aren't even saying anything constructive and just leaving it as "shut up doom doesn't need a story." That's a lazy non argument. I'll also point out that this thread has gone completely off the rails. It wasn't even about my head canon, I through that in on the side. The original topic was about the lore that Eternal itself created and how it doesn't even make sense unless Doomguy is traveling back in time.

Plus it's epic as f*ck!

I know who I'm talking about Redneck, Rudolf has been nothing but cool.

I'm personally a big fan of Realm666's Ultimate Torment and Torture episodes that I've made it canon in my timeline as well. Essentially it's Doom2 from the other Doom Marine's perspective. Still haven't decided for sure which is which, but essentially the events of Doom 2 are split between the Doom1 Marine and Doom3 Marine between the two games (Doom 2 and Torment&Torture) I'd like Doom1 Marine to be the one in Doom2 obviously.. even though the manual story for Doom2 sets it up better for it being the Doom3 Marine what with the dropship and all as mentioned above. *shrug* It's one of two ways - Doom 3 Marine- Takes part in the vents of Doom 2 and defeats Baphomet closing the portal to Earth temporarily.. Doom 1 Marine- Takes part in the events of 'Thy Flesh Consumed' and then Torment&Torture (Closes the portal to Earth for good when it starts back up again after Baphoment's defeat. https://youtu.be/iteq-CZU5p8?t=429

Why is it that when people dispute my post it's 'fine sounding opinion' but when I rebut their dispute suddenly I'm being butthurt? Are you guys just projecting onto me your own butthurt'ness that I'd dare to dispute you or what? Redneck's post was written in a way to have animosity towards my statement, he sounded almost gobsmacked how I could think such a ridiculous thing. I'm entitled to respond with just as much animosity especially if I have a valid counter argument. I also have the right to defend my position, because essentially what you and Redneck have is a 'non position' on the topic. Doom doesn't have a story, shouldn't even try to have a story, so don't even bother. I've at least put a lot of time and thought into making a valid story and I'll defend it if I have to. I have no problem if you want to dispute it but at least come at it with a logical inconsistency in my thinking, plothole.. ect. Something more then "doom doesn't need a story shut up." That's just so lazy.

"You get the desire to" but are making up any flimsy argument you can to make it not happen and rationalize it being impossible, interesting. About the names, I get it, I've read them all and I know they don't follow the games at all. Though truthfully the first Doom book follows the game almost level for level though. I shouldn't have to explain this but ID software never name their characters and I'd like to refer to them as something than "bla bla Marine/Guy." I'm merely taking whats useful from the books and using it. Personally am not adverse to the name Flynn Taggart as most people seem to be. Doom Eternal can make that joke of a Doom Comic canon in the games and you're not complaining about that, so don't complain about me using the names from the books.. Irrelevant but inconsequential as well, so what's the harm. Completely different character as the one in most of the games, on a base on Mars separate from all the games up until Doom 2016. Before you mention "yes but according to Doom2016 it's happening the same year as it happened in Doom 3" yeah well that's retarded, is easily ignored, and even the own developers mess up their own timeline by doing that as I mentioned in my original post. You list the contradictions because I haven't seen you list a single one. There was never any lore about the creation of the Cyberdemon. If you mean the design looking different yeah it's a stylistic choice. One it could be a different breed. Doom2016 sure didn't care much about making the Cyberdemon look like the ones from the earlier games either now did it. Also it's covered in techno-implant bullshit so it's hard to see much of it's biological look anyway. Plus as I said it's a stylistic choice. The Imps look pretty different then they do in the other Doom games as well but believe me that's only an issue when you're here trying to say why it doesn't work. When you're in the game playing you really don't care about that petty shit. You think it's funny but I'm sure you do it all the time and don't worry about it then. Like when Starwars fans watch their stuff. They can watch the main movies, then they can go and watch like.. the Clone Wars cartoon where the art style is vastly different and still know this character is that character.

Well funny thing, if you think about it Doom 3s ending works a hell of a lot more with Doom 2's manual story than Doom1 did. "Back at last. After days of hard fighting in space, you've returned home on well-earned leave. You're one of Earth's crack soldiers, hard-bitten, tough, and heavily-armed. When the alien invasion struck Mars, you were the first on the scene. By killing, killing, and killing, you won. You stopped the invasion, saved Mars base, and became a war hero. What they don't talk about so much is that you were the only survivor. But that's all behind you now. You've quit the military, and are heading home. Your drop pod lands with a crunch. You open 'er up, and look out. Damn! The city ahead is on fire." In Doom 1 you never fought on Mars, hell it was never even alluded to that Mars itself was invaded! Then they mention you landing in a drop-pod. I don't know what the guys at ID were smoking to not even remember how their own hit game ended. As we all know Doomguy didn't fly back to Earth he was teleported back. But guess who WAS on Mars, who WAS picked up by a fleet and flown back to Earth? That's right Doom3 Marine. But hell, in my timeline it's not even an immediate follow-up. Doom3 Marine (or Kane in the novel) has been back to doing regular Marine shit for about 2 years after Mars invasion. Following the expansion Resurrection of Evil, 2 years after the initial invasion it's the one off Engineer Marine that fucks Earth by activating the artifact, unknown to him and McNeil it allowed the demons not only to invade Mars again but also soon after Earth. Hell it's even worse then that. ROE Marine plays right into Hells hands, by defeating the three boss demons Betruger intentionally sent there TO be defeated by him.. thus charging up the artifact and allowing it's range to reach Earth. ROE Marine managed to close all the gates by the end by destroying the artifact, but it's too late. The demons are already on Earth, able to create a "Hell hole" like seen at the end of Doom3, basically making up the corrupted hellified area of the level "Dis" from Doom2. Later what would be called a Super Gore Nest in Doom Eternal. Doom 3 Marine was just out doing his military stuff having moved on when Earth is suddenly under attack after one of his return flights from being out in space.

I suppose, guess I just figured such an old influential forum would be more chill. I also figured I was being interpreted as one of these little brat zoomers who just played Doom Eternal and now thinks he's some big time doom fan.. and the idea of being thought of as that kills me. Funny huh? Yeah I was more active on Planet Doom's forum, remember that! I didn't even know I had an account here until I tried to make a new one and couldn't.

Wow, you guys are sorta being dicks. I'm not overthinking things or trying too hard. I'm having fun, you know what that is? It's one of the defining features of old ID games I like, the vague story so you could be imaginative and fill in the blanks yourself. I agree with Azuris that I liked it before they tried making too much story, the DLCs really muddied things up. Rudolph, I don't understand what you mean. Just abstract things, separate the mood styling of the game from it's plot. You know my first exposure to Doom was back on the PS1. So in my mind the first game doom1 was pretty creepy too! You could see it as a form of thematic characterization. Doom3 and Doom1 are creepy because the characters are encountering the horrors of Hell for the first time. As the games go on they get more goofy because their used to fighting them now so it's not scary anymore. But to answer your question, he's the protagonist from Final Doom because someone had to be, and Flynn Taggart was already back on Phobos or in Hell during the events of Doom64 around that time. I don't know how you could say they're not canon though, sure they started out as mods but now they're official ID games which makes them official canon. You can see it that way if you want to Azuris, I don't. Neither does Doom Eternal for that matter.

So I've prided myself on being quite the lore man, and for the longest time until Doom Eternal I really had nothing to challenge my head-canon. I'll be upfront in saying that I'm not a fan of Hugo Martin's form of story-telling where it becomes more and more clear that he's making shit up as he goes along and retconning pre-established things until they sort of make sense. Regardless, up until Eternal I essentially followed the Half-Life school of multiple game entries. I could talk your ears off on all the details about my timeline but simply put: DoomGuy/Flynn Taggart/Slayer - Marine from Doom 1, 2, 2016, Doom64, and Eternal Doom 3 Guy/John Kane/Marine - Doom 3, Final Doom TNT/Plutonia Basically Doom 3 and Doom 1 happen at the same time, ala Half-life and it's expansions, you play as Doom 3 guy on Mars and Doomguy on Phobos/Deimos.. Doomguy having already dispatched up to the moon with the other marines shortly before Doom3 Marine touches down on Mars. The thing I had to actively ignore in Doom2016 as I hate wipe-and-remake plots is that it takes place in 2145 same time as Doom3/Doom1. Something Hugo himself screws up by confirming the Slayer is the same guy. How exactly can he be Doomguy from Doom 1 if you have Doom2016 occurring on the exact same year as the Mars invasion from the first game? I basically have to ignore that detail (and a lot of details) in the codex and say it's a second invasion in the far future like say.. 2245 or something.. would make sense of the huge jump in technology seen in the base compared to how it looked in Doom3/1 Anyway I've seen it discussed that somehow the Slayer has decades if not longer of history with the Argenta after he inexplicably arrived there, and was apparently there before the 'angels' even knew anything about Hell and was in fact somehow the cause of them finding out about Hell. Which would put his arrival somewhere in the realm of what.. before humanity even existed on Earth? Yet he's Doomguy from 2145? I think the only plot line that makes sense is that after his battle with the second mother demon in Doom64 he was somehow sent through a portal back in time, Aku style, back to the beginning times of the universe.. with the first civilization as far as it's been established, the Argenta/Argentians. I began to think about this and actually a sort of cool plot point develops if we bring time travel into it (something I hate to do but what can you do?) If Doomguy was with the Argenta on the cusp of them setting out on their space flights to spread the Mykers word to other worlds, and it's established the Argenta had a city on Mars. Then that would make them the 'Martians' that built the civilization on Mars being studied by the UAC in 2145 during Doom3/Doom1. Even cooler, that could mean that the Doomguy being shown on the tablets as 'the mightiest warrior' wielding the soul cube ISN'T just a fun little Easter-egg and literally IS Doomguy lol. While we're talking about the Martians btw, anyone notice a striking link between Eternal and Doom3? The Argenta cross insignia can be seen in the Martian writing in Doom3... confirmation is the same people? https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/doom/images/0/09/Night_Sentinel.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20200129121801 https://doomwiki.org/w/images/0/03/Site_3_Caverns_-_Gallery.jpg (symbols second from the bottom on the sides of the door)