Omniarch Posted April 18, 2021 !!! WARNING - OMNIDUMP INCOMING! I REPEAT, OMNIDUMP INCOMING! - WARNING !!! Ah, what a nice thread, I think I just post a little list... 18 hours ago, rd. said: if you feel like explaining Oh no. Oh nononono. You didn't say that. You do not want to say that. What have you done... Whatever happens next, is on you rd. Maybe this shall teach you caution. Here it comes! ... Jokes aside, this is probably my longest post yet, just shy of 4,000 words long. Enjoy! Albtraum-haus, by @years (E2M5 of Nihility: Infinite Teeth) Spoiler It was hard to choose a single map from Nihility as my definitive 'favourite'. In the end, I decided that Albtraum-haus encompassed the widest range of the set's attributes in the most easily-consumable package. All that I am about to say is more a reflection on the entire set, rather than anything specific to the map itself. Nihility is extremely consistent across the board, quite unlike the original E2, so generalizations tend to be actually meaningful. The Shores of Hell is my favourite episode of the original Doom by a fair margin. The moody atmosphere, abstract level design and sense of ever-deepening insanity never fail to draw me into Hall and Petersen's nightmare. The main issue I have with the episode is its wildly varying quality and lack of cohesion. Nihility takes all the disparate themes of E2, binds them all together into a cohesive whole, and then expands upon the result in striking and lateral ways. Above all, the extensive dehacked work makes it feel more like some sort of single-episode expansion pack for the original Doom rather than a simple fan set. Albtraum-haus perfectly embodies the strengths of Nihility. The atmosphere in particular is so think you could cut it with a bread knife. Moody lighting, precise texture choice and a surprisingly vertical layout make the modestly-proportioned map feel both immense and claustrophobic at the same time. The soundscape is the real star of the show, however, despite being completely devoid of music. A dynamic mix of cleverly-implemented ambient sounds and the moaning, snarling and grunting of the map's monstrous inhabitants adds immensely to the unsettling atmosphere. Honestly, I could analyze Nihility's design all day, but I think just a little restraint is called for this time. In summary, this set is one of the most cohesive, technically-competent and unique PWADs on the market. I love everything about it. Years, I hope you return someday. I have a niggling sensation that your interpretation of hell would blow the community's socks right off! Bang Head, by @Scypek2 (MAP03 of Three's A Crowd) Spoiler Scypek2 is the truest successor to Sandy Petersen I have yet seen, pushing vanilla far beyond its limits in the most bizarre, lateral and often frustrating ways. His mastery of the surreal is unmatched, at least in his chosen format. Three's A Crowd is a monumental achievement, immensely creative and original, drenched in atmosphere and bound together by a surprisingly compelling narrative, told almost entirely through the environment. Bang Head is the first map that comes to mind when I think of 3IAC, which is a bit strange, since it is not really that exceptional in the context of the set. Lightbringer and Wrong Turn are surely more technically accomplished, Sheer Poison is undeniably more narratively compelling, Pushback is vastly more conventionally enjoyable, Under Control Still is decidedly more unhinged... You get the idea. So, what is it about the comparatively-plain MAP03 that makes it so exceptional? In objective terms, nothing really. Subjectively, everything about it. In no uncertain terms, this is the map that made me fall in love with 3IAC. There is something viscerally compelling about Bang Head, some of which due to the wider context (if you've played the previous two maps, you'll know what I mean) and some of which is specific to the map itself. Being deprived of all weapons save the rocket launcher early on completely changes the combat dynamics of the map, centering the challenge around spatial awareness and careful aiming rather than reflex or optimal resource management (though that's important to). This emphasis on space syngerizes extremely well with the surreal, Hell mansion aesthetic, forcing the player to pay close attention to the otherworldly layout in order to avoid blowing themselves to giblets. Being forced to engage with the environment so carefully is the thing that flipped a switch in my brain, translocating me to Scypek2's hell for the entire runtime of the map. I am rarely this immersed in any map, or any game for that matter. The fantastic midi by Crucnhynut44 also helps immensely in giving the map's its exquisite vibe. That is why I love Bang Head, and by extension, the whole of 3IAC, since the principle outlined above applies to many other maps in the set. Scypek2 is a master of interactive world-building, and it is this skill, boosted by his grasp of contextualizing narrative and lateral implementation, that makes his maps truly special to me. Blast Wave, by @skillsaw (MAP26 of Valiant) Spoiler This map is the embodiment of skillsaw, a sublime marriage of theme, gameplay and music, the platonic ideal of his signature style. 'Joyful' is the word that first comes to mind when describing Valiant's fifth episode, and the Blast Wave is the epitome of that feeling. Skillsaw's Lunar aesthetic, first codified in Lunatic and perfected here, is my favourite of his many original visual themes. High-contrast semi-naturalistic lighting, crisp texture work and and extensive use of outdoor space define the style in my eyes, and all these elements are on full display here. The fluid, energetic and dynamic combat that defines skillsaw's style synergizes brilliantly with the Lunar setting, the exotic locales giving the free-wheeling action a sense of breathless wonder. I have never played, and likely will never play Gundam Wing: Endless Duel, but its superb soundtrack will forever be burned into my mind thanks to its pitch-perfect utilization in this episode of Valiant. A better marriage of style and music is hard to come by. While it is true that the three pillars of skillsaw's style come together even better than usual here, Blast Wave is really just a stand-in for all of his best maps as far as I'm concerned, or at least the ones I've played. I think that is what makes his sets so universally popular among all sections of the community. Some may turn their noses up at slow-burn adventure maps, others may find the challenges posed by Sunlust and its ilk too much to bear, but joy is something almost everyone understands, and skillsaw sets the gold-standard in that department. Brigandine, by @Viggles Spoiler I wrote at length about this one already. I'll just copypaste it here for convenience's sake. It is not every day that I get to describe a Doom map as art. I don't mean that in the generic 'every creative endeavor is art' kind of way. When I say Brigandine is 'art', I am being completely literal. It feels like a painting, rendered in sidedefs and sectors, that you just so happen to kill monsters in. Not that Viggles' combat leaves anything to be desired, to the contrary, Brigandine is one of the few maps I've played that manages to mix top-notch combat and downright autistic detailing. There is a sense of composition here, of depth, of visual focus. The architecture draws the eye, directing you forwards, contextualizing the bewildering amount of detail into a readable whole. Not once did I find myself confused or lost, never was progression obscured or action hindered. And yet, like a vast piece of environment art, the finer details are not lost in the whole. Everywhere the eye may wander, there is something to note, some small detail, some inventive use of texture. The layout is downright mesmerizing, organic and flowing, matching the feel of an ancient city, grown naturally over centuries, bound to the contours of the land. There are small, hidden places, seemingly forgotten, contrasting against the vastness of the whole. Some of these are secrets, meant to be found, and others purely ornamental, serving no other function than to fill a given space with something. Few voids remain within the bounds of the level, almost all space made use of. Similar close attention is given to the wider world, beyond the scope of the map's progression. Beyond the confines of the playspace, the city continues, carefully constructed architecture unbound by the limitations of interactivity giving the impression of an vast city, stretching outwards and outwards until eventually melting into the domineering skybox. There is a palpable sense of place to this city, the impression of a world both larger and more intimate than Doom's ability to render. This place may once have been a magnificent utopia, but for reasons unknown it has fallen to the demonic hordes. Perhaps the city was wholly innocent, undeserving of its fate, or perhaps its inhabitants brought armageddon upon themselves? Brigandine gives us no clues, but it is fun to consider. All this gives a powerful sense of context to the gameplay, which is focused primarily on combat, with exploration being a secondary task. The resource balance is fine-tuned to a truly incredible degree: never once did I run dry, yet never did I feel that the map would withhold punishment for my mistakes. This allows the combat to really shine, each encounter almost pitch-perfect in its pacing and balance. Brigandine, despite its outrageous linedef count, is a relatively short and linear map, eliminating any risk of it overstaying its welcome. It is a precise experience, smooth and professional, every element fine-tuned to perfection over its two and a half year long development. Quality of life seems to have been a priority for Viggles, which manifests in so many small ways, like the almost complete lack of obstructive detailing or the fact that the vast majority of linedefs have been tagged as invisible to keep the automap clear of clutter. In summary, Brigandine is a masterpiece of a map, an interactive work of art, with care and attention given to the smallest detail, from geometry to gameplay to atmosphere. I have returned to this map many times in the past, and look forward to the many times I shall revisit it the future. Carrol St. Station, by @Xaser (E5M4 of Doom: The Lost Episode) Spoiler I said to myself when making this list that I would only include one map per mapper and one map per wad. This left me in a bit of a pickle, because Xaser is one of my favourite mappers, mainly for his work on NEIS and Syringe, but I couldn't think of an appropriate map to represent him. The former set is an issue because as much as I love his contributions, it would be both inaccurate and grossly unfair to NT to choose one of Xaser's contributions as the one and only NEIS map to feature in this list. The latter is problematic because all of my favourite maps in it are collaborations, which just wouldn't do. I needed a Xasermap, one that I had played to completion and enjoyed immensely. What about dead.wire or dead.air? Both are excellent, but I haven't even finished the former nor plumbed the depths of the latter. Plus, both are UDMF (I think), which is not to my taste. Then it hit me. There is one other set Xaser worked on, one that I have played in its entirety, one, incidentally, with a great degree of resemblance to NEIS. I am of course talking about Doom: The Lost Episode, a lesser-known fifth episode 'replacement' for Ultimate Doom. The Lost Episode is an odd-ball set, compiling and revising various console-exclusive or alpha maps and re-contextualizing them into an acid-trip of an episode. It requires ZDoom to run despite the fact that the maps themselves are limit-removing (I think), and includes some D2 monsters along with the SSG. Odd indeed. Of its nine maps, one for me stands head and shoulders above the rest, in terms of immersion, vision, gameplay and general memorability: E5M4: Carrol St. Station. At first glance, this map does not seem much like a Xaser map. The beautiful and elaborate shapes that define his layouts are not present, replaced with simple boxes. However, as one ventures deeper, Xaser's touch becomes more and more apparent. Small spirals, triangles and other shapes start appearing in the geometry, bizarre yet appropriate texture choices start to catch the eye, ingenious puzzles tease the mind. By the time the map's dark secret is revealed, its intent made clear, one can no longer disassociate the map from its maker. Carrol St. Station is Xaser to the core. Xaser's style is defined by many, many things, but what I love most about his work is that whatever it my look like on the surface, whatever context it may exist within, one could never mistake it for anything else. There is a subtle ingenuity unique to Xaser's output, an unmistakable eccentricity. And that is what I love about it. Core Processor, by @cannonball (E2M7 of Return to Hadron Episode 2) Spoiler Cannonball's signature style is one of the most subtly distinctive in the entire community. There are many visual signifiers, patterns in layout and preferences in monster combination that define the style, none of which are as immediately noticeable as the defining traits of other mappers on this list. His maps are a-contextual, lacking in any sense of place and with apparently generic (though highly competent) themes. This meant that I tended to overlook his stuff, even consider it overrated at times. I didn't get it, not until I tried Return to Hadron for the second time, resolving to take the challenge seriously for the first time. It was a revelation. Something just clicked in my brain, and I finally understood what made people love his stuff: cannonball maps are fucking delightful. Words actually fail to convey the feeling of murderous zen that comes over me when I'm stuck deep in the action of RtH. There is something so fluid, dynamic, free about the combat in his maps. There are few overwrought encounters, giant set-pieces or annoying traps. Just pure, free-form, unrestrained slaughter. His choice to use only D1's limited bestiary suddenly made sense as the stroke of genius it truly is. The simple attack patterns of the zombieman, shotgunner, pinky, caco, baron and cyber synergize brilliantly with this style of play, allowing the player to stay constantly on the move with fear of being perforated by chaingunners, incinerated by stray mancubus fireballs, zapped by archviles, chased by tracers or melted by criss-crossing streams of arachnotron plasma. The visuals also take on new meaning in this context, easily-readable, time-efficient to create and pleasing to behold if not terribly engaging, perfect as the backdrop for the main attraction. Core Processor is everything I love about RtH and cannoball's style in general, up-scaled to titanic proportions, offering a half hour's worth of non-stop action. Fomalhaut, by @Mechadon (MAP10 of Ty Halderman Tribute: Threnody) Spoiler Mechadon has one of the most distinctive styles in Doom-dom, one that I have a great degree of appreciation for. His maps are, more often than not, big, like, really big. Not Sunder-big, mind, a different sort, the kind that sprawls outward, seemingly aimless, yet always managing to fold back in on itself and establish a firm sense of progression. Despite their scale, there is a paradoxical sense of intimacy to Mechadon's maps. Every section is carefully, artfully constructed, adorned with inset detailing, all carefully interwoven into the overall design of the map. There is no conflict between large and small, every aspect of the layout and detailing flows seamlessly into the next. One of the most distinctive aspects of his style is the lack of opaque void spaces between segments: more often than not, you can observe an area long before you actually reach it. This sense of organic vastness is the defining aspect of the style to me, making each map feel like an epic adventure. Counterattack is probably the definitive Mech set in my eyes, and it along with the Vela-Pax beta comprise the majority of my exposure to his work. There is one issue that I have with many of his works, however, a direct result of his organic style: the progression is often either confusing, or simply drawn-out, with sections feeling as though they exist simply for their own sake despite lacking any standout features of their own. The experience of the map often blurs together into an enjoyable but undefined sequence of pretty room after pretty room, with few outstanding moments to anchor the experience. This problem has consistently undermined my enjoyment of his maps. Not to any great extent, mind, but just enough to make them fall short of true greatness, despite the obscene amount of work poured into each. Enter Fomalhaut. This map is truly something special, well-deserving of its spot in the top 100 most memorable maps. Everything I have said thus far about Mechadon's work is on full display here, yet somehow tempered into a more focused but no less grand experience. I'm not sure why this is the case, perhaps Mech felt the need to rein it in a bit, so as not to hurt the pacing of the whole set? I could not even begin to guess. Regardless, there is a noticeable difference in pacing between Fomalhaut and Counterattack or Vela-Pax, at least to my memory. The encounters seem to just stand out more, the progression simply seems less confusing and there is a strong, unified sense of place to the whole experience. Fomalhaut feels like a massive, monolithic techbase surrounded by a beautiful naturalistic cave system, rather than an abstract, open-air labyrinth. To me, this map is Mechadon's masterpiece, though admittedly I have yet to play the last couple of Counterattack maps in full or finish Vela-Pax, but I don't think my assumption will be challenged easily. The Kerberos Complex, by @antares031 (MAP06 of Antaresian Reliquary) Spoiler Out of all the mappers in the Doom Community, antares031 is probably the one I respect the most. He brings together so many disparate skills to create some of the most cohesive, bold and original content in all Doom-dom. He is one of the few 'full-stack' creators, who makes his own visual themes, weapons, monsters, decorations and textures. The only part of the stack antares doesn't do himself is create music, and even then his music choices are so unique and so well-placed that he might as well have made each track personally. Fortress 2 Blue's soundtrack belongs to him, as far as I'm concerned. More people on the english-speaking web have heard it through his wads than the source, I'd wager! Antares' ability to induce a potent sense of joy is second only to skillsaw's, and his overarching sense of unique vision may exceed even the block-busting pun-slinging king-of-Doom himself. Above all, the aspect of antares' work that stands out the most to me is the weapons. Oh god, the weapons. Both Struggle and Reliquary have completely revamped arsenals. Each weapon is faster, punchier and deadlier than its vanilla counterpart. In the latter, weapon switching is also much faster, resulting in an absolutely frenetic style of play. Both sets also have modified monster rosters, with a general increase in lethality to match the arsenal. Between the two, almost any possibility of grind is neutralized. Despite his immense body of work, I had little difficultly selecting The Kerberos Complex as my favourite. This absolute crown jewel of a map encapsulates everything I love about antares' style, from its autistic detailing, vast, interconnected layout, superb texturing and glorious free-wheeling combat, all underlined by a blood-pumping midi, which poetically is also the theme of Struggle's first map, bringing his entire body of work full-circle. If this section comes off as a bit more rambly and unfocused than the previous entries, that is simply because I have too many good things to say, and not enough time to say them. I hope I managed to get my point across. Misri Halek, by Kim Andre-Malde (MAP20 of Alien Vendetta) Spoiler What can I say about this one that has not already been said? While it may not be as impressive as some modern maps, it is profound experience nevertheless. The sublime midi certainly helps with that, but there is something truly special about Misri Halek, something beyond words. A kernel of this nameless sensation permeates Alien Vendetta, a sense of deep melancholy contrasted against epic adventure, fleshed out to its fullest in MAP10 & MAP20. No megawad has had the same emotional impact on me as AV, and Kim Andre-Malde's work is the cornerstone of the set, anchoring everything in place. Misri Halek is a truly unique experience, visionary, bold, ground-breaking for its time, fully deserving of its status as the most memorable map in Doom history. I can only imagine what Kim Andre-Malde could have become if his life was not cut so cruelly short. Rest in peace. Sanctuary of Filth, by @NaturalTvventy (E4M6 of No End In Sight) Spoiler How fortuitous that this map just so happened to end up at the end of the list. Save the best till last, I always say. I'll be upfront here: NaturalTvventy is my favourite mapper, and No End In Sight is the main reason I learned how to map in the first place. Hur hur, Omni sad, very funny, yada yada. No more irony, its gushing time. More than any other set, more than Alien Vendetta, more than Three's A Crowd, more even than Nihility, No End In Sight immerses me, draws me in, makes me interface with its world, engage with its malign designs. No End In Sight is also a journey, for the player and seemingly NT himself, a dual revelation. Based on the first seven maps alone, one might dismiss the set as yet another part of the vast DTWiD cinematic universe, a mere spin-off, not unwelcome, but not strictly warranted either. E1M7 changes all that. The well-made and mildly subversive E1 techbases that came before suddenly give way to a miniature adventure map, still Phobos, but with a Xaserian spin, an edge of madness quite unlike what came before. The second episode seems to kick off a friendly competition between the two main mappers, each trying to one-up the other in terms of originality and vision.The Depths of Doom is a drastic improvement over the first episode, taking the player on a journey across worlds, from gloomy, corrupted techbases to derelict spacecraft and illusory castles. NT and Xaser approach parity, as the former's maps begin to display a deepening insanity, a descent into hellish abstraction. Woe continues the game of one upmanship, only this time the goal seems to be to find out who can brutalize the player the most. While Xaser's The Grinder is surely a painful experience, NT's Anomaly Retribution is in a class unto itself, a torturous, mind-bending adventure across various hellish realms. It is however the final proper map of the episode, E3M7, that solidifies NT's dominance with its vast, inscrutable depths and truly ingenious secrets. Bloodstained Earth is the most memorable part of NEIS, containing a home-run of six truly exceptional maps. NT begins the episode strong, setting an impressive standard with E4M2, which gives new meaning to the word devious. Xaser counters by moving laterally, making one of the best city maps ever in E4M3. NT is on a roll though, and strikes back with E4M4, probably the closest approximation of a hellish invasion I've yet seen in a Doom wad. It is with E4M6 though that NT truly cements himself as one of Doom's greatest mappers. Xaser's final riposte in E4M7: Vacumm Consortium, impressive and ingenious as it is, simply cannot compete with the magnitude of this accomplishment. E4M6 is the epitome, the final form, the platonic ideal of all NEIS strives to be. A vast, hostile megastructure, crawling with hell's denizens, disorientingly vertical, inscrutable to the point of frustration. Sanctuary of Filth is the single most cruel, demented and brilliant map I have ever played, and one of the most difficult. It took me four hours across three playthroughs and multiple consultations with a map editor to finally unravel this masterpiece, to 100% complete it. I had to save scum like hell to do it, dying dozens of times to monsters, traps or simple attrition. Never before have I been so ground down by a Doom map, so filled with bitter determination to see it through, to prove that the end is in sight after all. This is NT's apotheosis, his magnum opus. To me, this is NEIS' final map, its ultimate challenge. 36 Quote Share this post Link to post
MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai Posted April 18, 2021 (edited) @Omniarch You know what´s kinda interesting about 3IAC main trio of protagonists? It´s the fact that @Scypek2 made them unique in terms of what weapons they "prefer". What I mean by that is when you start a level in episode 1 with the first guy, the first weapon he usualy gets is a rocket launcher, while second guy gets chaingun/shotgun and third guy is handed almost imidiately a plasma rifle (hell the first level with third guy starts with him using exclusively a plasma rifle in slaughter-lite arena). Not only that but the gameplay is radicaly different with each guys to compliment their arsenal, Episode 1 is survival horor, E2 is action horor and E3 is full blown action movie. Correct me if I´m wrong but I have never seen any other megawad do this subtle distinction between it´s characters, at least as far as we are talking about vanila format. Quote Blast Wave, by @skillsaw (MAP26 of Valiant) Yeah @skillsaw knows how to please us Gundam heads, right Omni ;)? Edited April 18, 2021 by MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
Grain of Salt Posted April 18, 2021 In no particular order, probably missing a lot, this might be 9 rather than 10, idk 20x6 04 "Tanagra" (hon mentions: 05, 07) Sl20 "inverti in darkness" (hm: 24, 28, 14) "The leet map" Ks25 "cow face" (hm: 29) Hr22 (hm: 25) Sodfinal 14 (hm: 06, 18) Mohu 2 (can't decide between this and bauhaus 01) Fcff 05(??) (The one with the platform puzzle) (hm: 01, 04(?)) Tom19 cyber two shotting map (hm: the chip's challenge map) Just for fun, top ten shmup stages Doj stage 5 Dodonpachi 1 stages 5 and 6 Ketsui stage 5 Dangun feveron stage 4 Mushihimesama futari stage 5 Ibara kuro stage 5 Garrega stage 6 Batrider stage 7 Raiden dx stage 6 6 Quote Share this post Link to post
Omniarch Posted April 18, 2021 35 minutes ago, MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai said: @Omniarch You know what´s kinda interesting about 3IAC main trio of protagonists? It´s the fact that @Scypek2 made them unique in terms of what weapons they "prefer". Huh, that's actually a really good point. 3IAC is so chock full of these little details, its crazy. 36 minutes ago, MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai said: Yeah @skillsaw knows how to please us Gundam heads, right Omni ;)? Hell yes! Sieg Zeon! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Not Jabba Posted April 18, 2021 I'd love to write a wall of text more detailed explanation, but I think this'll have to do. 1) Wild Bleu Yonder by Xaser and MTrop (Adventures of Square E2A5) 2) Culture Shock by lupinx-Kassman (Ancient Aliens map 24) 3) Ending by Jaska (Lost Civilization map 20) - 5till L1 Complex by Lainos - Saturnine Chapel by dobu gabu maru - The Given by dobu gabu maru - Hazmat Hazama by Toooooasty (JPCP map 29) - Sanctuary of Filth by NaturalTvventy (NEIS E4M6) - Jade Earth by Jodwin - Formalhaut by Mechadon (THT Threnody map 10) 11 Quote Share this post Link to post
Omniarch Posted April 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, Not Jabba said: I'd love to write a wall of text more detailed explanation I feel personally attacked rn 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Not Jabba Posted April 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Omniarch said: I feel personally attacked rn Mostly I just wanna give you a high five. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
dmslr Posted April 18, 2021 @Omniarchthis is the freaking biggest post I've seen in DW. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted April 19, 2021 Kind of hard to follow up on Omniarch's post, so I'll not try to! Here's ten favourites (in no particular order) and why: ZDoom Community Map Project Take #1 - The ZDoom Forums circa 2004 (updated 2006) The map that inspired me to join the ZDoom forums, update to ZDoom 2.0.63a and get hold of Doom Builder. It's also reasonably easy-going on UV, great fun and has a really upbeat and exciting atmosphere. Probably the map I've returned to the most, that I didn't make. The scripted credit sequence at the end was awesome then and is still cool now. ZDoom Community Map Project Take #2 - The ZDoom Forums and Realm667 circa 2012-2014 The sequel may actually be better than the original! More features, a bigger cast, longer play time and a better final fight all contribute here, plus it's got the sentimental value for me of actually being the one I contributed to, albeit with a crappy large area that took a lot of work from others to bring up to scratch. Torment 'n' Torture - Tormentor667 On a given day, I'm not sure whether I'd say the first map, TNT2: Armory of Pain or TNT3: Fortress of Damnation is actually my favourite @Tormentor667 map, as all three capture that mid-2000s ZDoom charm so well, and all three were updated nicely for UTNT, so I'll say the first, as it's a little more digestible and does a lot of good. The original City of the Damned is another good shout in this vein, IMO. Runaway Train (NJTrain) - Enjay @Enjay's famous train is a blast and another great example of this ZDoom era that I love so much - it's fast-paced, fun and perfectly paced. Enjay makes a lot of good stuff, but this is his "coffee break" map and a great one to revisit. Streets of Rage: It's Time for Action (Action Doom 2: Urban Brawl MAP01) - Scuba Steve et. al Urban Brawl is a masterpiece and this first map introduces it all so well. The art style, the game play, the story and humour - it's all here. It's closely competing with MAP02: Action Bridge: The Manhattan Project, MAP06: Phylex: Rising to The Challenge and MAP07: Phylex: Top Floor (all maps that do a lot and have plenty of interest), but as it's one of the few maps that you have to take on every time you play through, I'm glad it's so strong. YAKWORLD E1M1 - Spackle Ltd My one entry from earliest era, and it's here for nostalgia for the most part. It's a big crazy world and a great inspiration for a young boy who's being shown custom WADs. These days the lack of quality is readily apparent, but it's creative and still pretty fun. Plus, who can forget "GOAT MAN VERSUS MR GREEN"? Take Umbrage (DBP18 MAP05) - glenzinho Glen has quite a specific style in a lot of his maps, which come across as rolling arenas more often than not. This takes that kinetic game play and stretches it out into a "proper" map, for want of a better description, that has some major secrets going on (starting off the spirit of the Tomatoman saga like no other map in the set), striking visuals and a lot more to recommend it. Whilst it's not quite as visually stunning as some of what he's gone on to make (his DBP27 MAP09: Praia De Icarai is probably the current high point there) or as creative with the background details as his DBP26 map, this one just hits the spot so well. Being in the DBK made the projects a bit more special, as I was invested, involved and working alongside some good people, and I particularly liked the stretch from 17 to 26, where I was most into it. The "Crate" Escape (DBP18 MAP07) - Big Ol' Billy Sometimes a project idea fires you up and you put in a particularly strong showing. DBP18 had that affect on most of the mappers involved, and it was almost competitive with the extent of how the maps escalated in size and quality. Billy turned up with an epic adventure that does a lot of interesting stuff with crates and builds a big wide world. There's generally not a bad Billy map in existence, and the projects he leads have a lot going for them, but him just cutting loose with "a Doom map" was particularly special. I get more joy out of other DBPs as total experiences (Alone, Spaceballs, Christmas Carol and City of Damned Children all jump to mind), but for strong individual maps, I may still view DBP18 as the benchmark. Serenity in the Air (MAYhem 2048 MAP06) - Memfis I really liked MAYhem 2048 - not every map was a winner, but it's bite sized and creative, making strong use of The Return resources. Memfis' map isn't too hard, although it does pack a sting in the tail, but it's beautiful and fun. It stays memorable even after strong offerings by eternal (MAP32), Steve Duff (MAP25), tourniquet (MAP21) and Chris Hansen (MAP19) - also worthy contenders as favourites. Diabolus Ex - Arvell There's a fine tradition of recreating other games, mechanics from them and/or their levels in Doom. This map does a great job of lifting the theme and concept without doing much direct borrowing, I think, and the end result has a lot of the same charms as Action Doom 2, but in a single map. Great stuff. I could probably go on, but the problem with picking a favourite map out of a good project (e.g. Pirate Doom or Doom Vacation) is that it all works together as a whole to produce a great experience, and then I don't really see the individual map any more. I was tempted to chuck one of my own maps in the list, as I often claim I'm my own favourite mapper, but I realised didn't need to, as there's lots of good stuff I've played over the years - even though I don't get too excited about the traditional megaWAD or the modern style of mapping. 10 Quote Share this post Link to post
Final Verdict Posted April 19, 2021 Both @Omniarch and @Phobus posts are a breath of fresh air. Fantastic stuff, both of you. It's also a great way for me to dismiss that creeping feeling that I tend to ramble on or go into too much detail sometimes. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
Omniarch Posted April 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Final Verdict said: It's also a great way for me to dismiss that creeping feeling that I tend to ramble on or go into too much detail sometimes. Damn, and I thought I was practising restraint... Next up: Omni's Top 100 Maps, In Ten Separate Parts So As Not To Fry The Server. Its the size of a medium size sci-fi novel and twice as pretentious! I'd know, I've (half) written one! ... God no. Even I don't have that much time to waste! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
DOEL Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) in no order 1. Alien Vendetta - map 25 2. Community Chest 4 - map 10 3. Community Chest 2 - map 24 4. Bloodstain - map 06 5. Scythe 2 - map 27 6. Lunatic - map 04 7. Plutonia - map 11 8. Japanese Community Project - map 28 9. Epic 2 - map 16 10. Speed of Doom - map 26 11. Hell Revealed 2 - map 19 12. TNT: Revilution - map 30 13. Stardate 20X6 - map 06 14. Nova III - map 15 I like intensity, big fights, big spaces. my main concern is gameplay but I do like tastey aesthetics Edited April 19, 2021 by DOEL 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
ReaperAA Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) It's pretty hard for me to state my top 10 favorite maps as it really depends on my mood. Majority of the maps I like are medium length maps that are beatable in under 20 minutes (Valiant Map31 and Heartland Map06 are exception) and have a "fast-food" like fun in them. In no particular order, my top favorite maps as of now are: - Heartland Map01: Just like what MtPain27 said in his Heartland video, I would say that this is arguably my favorite Map01 of any wad out there. I really wish there were more maps like this that contain both good sense of place and also have great flow/gameplay. - Heartland Map06: A pure beast of a map with fast paced action and plenty of memorable fights. The best fights being the tram fights and the last fight of the map. - Valiant Map31: A really fun entry level slaughter map that I enjoy because of it was one of the first map I ever played that had this many monsters. - Eviternity Map10: Creation is one of the two maps that I frequently play for relaxing and mental satisfaction. Many enemies, but short and fairly easy to mow them on this map. - TNT: Revilution Map08: The other map that I play for my mental satisfaction. Nothing more satisfying than chaingunning all the zombie tier enemies in this map. The exit with the zombie(s) always cracks me up. - TNT: Revilution Map12: I can't sing enough praises of this map's atmosphere. Probably the most atmospheric map I have ever played in a vanilla format map. It genuinely made me creep out a bit when I played it the first time. - Alien Vendetta Map06: Hillside siege truly feels like a D-Day where we are invading the demon stronghold. Enemies having the high ground and rockets being scarce means that you have to man up and penetrate their defences by marching forward. - Alien Vendetta Map18: A really fun map having Plutonia-like visuals and a good ton of enemies to kill. I like the map because of the huge arena room with half a dozen masterminds and tons of other enemies. Fun and yet fairly easy to deal with them as there are tons of health and ammo resources. - Jenesis Map12: It's a highway. A highway where you cause destruction. What else can I say. Edited April 19, 2021 by ReaperAA 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted April 19, 2021 This is really hard. I've played so many "A+" maps I find it tough to commit to any. FOMO is a real concern: "pick one, but that means I'll miss out on another map so maybe I want that other map instead, but wait the first map was actually better, but no maybe actually I want this entirely different map, but sigh that means I won't find a spot for 'Habitat' so--" As ReaperAA suggested, there is also an element of what exactly I might be in the mood for at a given time. But so far this is the unordered list I was working on, just more well known things to start (with close runners-up in parentheses): Quote Ancient Aliens m24 Eviternity m15 (m26) Counterattack m02 [this kinda shows its quick devtime if you compare the aesthetics to other big, impressive Mechadon maps, but imo it's Mech's most intoxicatingly fun map] Lost Civilization m20 (m13, m02) Valiant episode 1 [cheating and considering this one map]Sunlust [cheating and considering this one map] Sunlust m20 (or m16 or m29, or Swim with the Whales m02) Although every other episode of Valiant has a map that I like more than or as much as 06 or 07, the 01-07 stretch, combined, is my favorite contiguous interval of Valiant, and I wanted to highlight that. It's a way of acknowledging that a "map" is an arbitrary unit. Have some incomplete brainstorming (many of these are probably in my top-50 at least, but it's not exhaustive either, god there's so much Doom): Quote Mapwich 2 m10 (m05) - any early-mapset Big Ol' Billy map with combatless sections or no combat at all - favorite Nihility map favorite JPCP map favorite JPLeBreton fun project map (also generally, pore over all the smaller, more idiosyncratic maps with lots of Doomcute I've played -- there are probably 2-3 of those in my top-20) favorite AD_79 map [that is an author not a mapset] favorite "pure fun slaughter-light gameplay map" that isn't all that well known or ambitious ["microslaughter" like Shai'tan's Luck's best two maps? Cannonball's smaller Doom 2 maps, a smaller map in SF2012, a good small BFG spam map?] favorite Darkwave map [author again] favorite Heretic map [the game, not the speedrunner] favorite random '90s or '00s map I've tried on idgames favorite BTSX e2 map Return to Necropolis m02 (or was that m01?) if unfinished projects are okay --SPOILER-- and --SPOILER-- if unreleased projects are okay maybe just add another Mechmap too favorite TNT:R map (Pinchy's Superweapons Facility, or maybe the best Dobu-coauthored map (probably m12)?) theoretical: if you have a million supercomputers running for the entirety of the universe's life, cranking out Oblige maps, one of them might actually be amazing Slaughtermax m11 Spidersilk [made-up silliness] if nonexistent projects are okay comb through '00s mapsets again replay No End in Sight because I might really appreciate e4 this time around play Adventures of Square e2 and Golden Souls 2, would be surprised if I don't end up really loving one map in one of those big Z projects that I have played (Ashes 2063, Winter's Fury, etc.) favorite thing from Dimension of the Boomed, Avactor, Nova 2, Antaresian _____ Preacher, etc. -- recent projects like that favorite Back to Basics map Draft Excluder e4m3 favorite pure slaughter/challenge/NIH map. Abandon 15?/13?/11? Also nothing after November 2020 is in this post, otherwise I'd have a top-10 relatively easily. Uh... yeah 2021 has been a really good year of Doom so far. 15 Quote Share this post Link to post
Not Jabba Posted April 19, 2021 1 hour ago, rd. said: Return to Necropolis m02 Wait you've played that? I'm so jealous right now. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) There's a lot of potential ways to approach this question, but ultimately I've decided I'm just gonna go with what my heart says and ignore things like how impressive maps are from a technical perspective, how popular maps are, etc. The main reason for this is that it's really hard for me to judge contemporary maps with that same starry-eyed feeling I had playing wads as a kid.. A feeling I can tell some people still possess based on their responses! In my lifetime, I've been through multiple phases when it comes to my relationship with Doom/WADs: there's a big difference between when I was young and easily impressed by just about anything in the way of custom content, VS being a 20 year mapping veteran who knows most of the tricks of the trade. The sense of mystery is "gone", replaced with a thorough knowledge of how mapping works under the hood. Something lost, something gained, although I'd say the trade was well worth it, as now I get that sense of childlike joy from the process of mapping itself. By no means am I saying I've "mastered the craft" or any such pretentious rubbish, but that sense of mystery surrounding the process of mapping/modding Doom made it really easy for WADs to enter my good graces in that early, formative Dooming period of my life. Now I can look at maps well and truly beyond anything I played back then in a technical sense and - despite acknowledging how gorgeous and impressive it is - there's every chance I won't even remember it the next day.. and that's by no means the fault of the mapper or their gorgeous work: this is probably not only due to that old sense of "magical mystery" being gone, but due to the general oversaturation of the modern WAD market. It's only natural that seeing something for the 700th time is going to be less mind-blowingly amazing than the first 699 times, even if that 700th one was technically the best when you consider all it's merits. I see some people here who are like walking encyclopedias of their favorite Doom mapsets. I'm impressed by that, and a little bit jealous. Some time between the 30th and 50th and 100th and 1000th WAD I played, I lost most of my ability to remember where one ends and the next one begins, with a few rare exceptions - and even with those, I remember the "wad as a whole" and would never be able to recall which stand-out bits came from which specific map within the wad. In this thread and various others of a similar nature, I see people being like "Yeah, that spot 1/3rd of the way through Eviternity Map22? That shit is my jam" and I'm just thinking damn, I wish I still had that ol' starry-eyed feeling when playing wads, where I can remember a particular spot in a particular wad with fond reverence! That's a real rarity for me these days. Still, there's no way I'd trade the technical understanding for the aforementioned sense of "magic and mystery". Fun as that is (was), mapping and modding, and in some cases teaching others, gives me greater joy than that childlike-wonder ever did. TL;DR: Just put it this way, if you're looking for a list of the actual "best wads", you're not gonna find it from me. What you're gonna find instead are the wads that left the greatest impression on me. Not only did being young make me more easily entertained, but additionally the overall standards have also changed a great deal since then - what was once incredible/rare is now commonplace, and that of course has a big impact on how works are received. ..alright, I think that's enough pointless qualifying of my opinions! What are we talking about again...? Oh yeah, a top 10 list! In no particular order: Memento Mori Map02 (The Bridge). This level has such a strong sense of atmosphere, largely credited to the incredible track Dreadnaught by Mark Klem building up in the background, only to crescendo right around the time the map starts to bare some teeth. The combination of new music, new texturing, solid mapping and the sense of still having a full journey ahead of me compounded into a very memorable moment in my Dooming lifetime and cemented MM's eternal place in my heart as a source of inspiration. DWANGO5 Map01. I've had probably thousands of matches on this map in total, no exaggeration. It's the definitive dueling arena of all time, as far as I'm concerned - it's only one of countless Entryway modifications, but this one just hit all the right notes in all the right ways to be considered the best iwad-remix DM map ever made, not only by me, but by the majority of deathmatchers and duelists over the years. It's a pillar of Doom deathmatch that I feel everyone should play at least once. Don't Be A Bitch Remastered Map01 (Fade). This is an example of a modern work that impressed me so much it managed to enter the rarely-expanded pool of post-2000 works I remember vividly and have played many times over. It is quite literally the perfect blend of what made oldschool Deathmatch great and what makes newschool maps so nice for the common Doomer: things like player and weapon spawn spots are fine-tuned to a T, the map strikes the perfect balance of roominess and coziness, and to top it all off this beautifully-textured arena is coupled with one of the most gorgeous background tunes I've heard in the realm of Doom content (composed by jdagenet). I guess the fact that this map was made by Decay, one of my closest friends in the Doom community, colors my view just a bit - but even if it was made by someone I'd never met, this map would forever sit high on my list of deathmatch recommendations. UDM3 Map04 (The Cool Map). UDM3 was the first time I had ever seen a custom color palette in Doom, and this map managed to bring out the beauty of the new color choices. Seeing a stunning little beach with nice turquoise water (as opposed to the Royal Blue that comes stock standard with Doom) just floored me, I really felt like I could smell the salt water in the air. The choice of using Gerudo Valley was simply perfect - the song fit the map like a glove, with that beautiful acoustic guitar and brass combo. It's just another fine example that a map doesn't have to be technically impressive - it's all about the feeling it makes you feel, and with just a small arena and just a small handful of sectors, this map easily rushed right into the list of "most memorable Doom creations". The gameplay is fast, endearing and timeless, serving as a perfect bow on the adorable little package that is this map. Drown in Blood - (I guess Map01 if we have to pick just one). Playing this wad in old ZDaemon servers was an absolute treat. Usually it would be loaded alongside a mod that makes the player's weapons FAR tougher/faster so that you could cut through a thousand or more demons like a hot knife through butter. It's hard for me to whittle this wad down to one map, because the whole thing is quite an experience (even though it was seemingly never finished). I had NEVER seen monster counts this high before, and I wouldn't be surprised if it had more monsters in total than any wad that had ever come before, circa 2005. The joy of cutting through literally thousands of Hell Knights and Barons with 4-8 people, all of us armed with SSGs that fire faster than the stock chaingun... that is something that I will truly hold near and dear til I'm 6 feet under. It was also a very early example of a true slaughter wad - playing it in the era from which it came inherently meant witnessing the birth of what would become a full and developed genre of it's own. Jesus, what a time to be a Doomer... I've already written about the following 5 maps in great detail, as they are childhood wads that I played during that aforementioned "starry-eyed" period, where all custom content was surrounded by that aura of mystery. Rather than pointlessly re-stating the same old stuff, I'll just quote an older post I made on the subject: On 8/26/2019 at 3:26 AM, Doomkid said: Most of the wads I played as a child are seemingly forgotten gems, with the exception of DoomCity which has been given it’s due love over the years. Ironically, it’s probably the one new Doomers would be least impressed with, but back in the day it was like a perfect template for what newbie authors “should” do - Clean minimalist design, easy but engaging encounters, classy but limited use of custom textures, a custom sky to give it a unique identity and even a cool custom MIDI, homemade no less. I couldn’t articulate it but even back then it really, really inspired me to get into level design. Hellrun for Doom 2 was my first ever slaughtermap, though perhaps it’s too tame to be called that today (I didn’t play Plutonia/Go2it til the 00s). I spent hours and hours and hours playing Hellrun as a kid and never got bored, for me it is the pinnacle of “replayable, interconnected, well-designed 90’s Doom maps”. If DoomCity is a great template for newbie mappers, Hellrun is the template for once you get comfortable with mapping. It still has pretty big balls considering it’s age, too - good luck when the unexpected wave of revenants and barons just decides to show up! Fun to be had! Area51 was the wad that introduced me to custom monsters! Even if they were just reskins, holy shit did they add to the experience. Storming that fenced-off base while the Mission Impossible theme plays and the troopers are shouting “There he is! Stop him!”.. Man, that’s the shit nostalgia is made of. People may scoff nowadays but this wad taught me the importance of setting, theme, story and “sense of purpose”. Despite having aged, Area51 provided me with this feeling that I was actually getting somewhere, actually doing something - It wasn’t just “generic techbase #1538”. Even today, the importance of purpose is overlooked in the vast majority of wads, yet that is a huge chunk of why so many Doomers recall Doom1 as a better game than Doom2 despite the fact that Doom2 is superior from a technical perspective (and gameplay perspective imo). The feeling that you’re working towards something keeps the player immersed even when the gameplay ain’t super hot! Bermuda starts the player off in a small crashed plane near the corpse of his buddy, it was a very memorable opening area to me, a cool way to pique the players interest. The map is largeish and has decent gameplay even though some parts are a little tedious. Perhaps it is just another wad in the wall, there’s no design philosophy case study I can make for this one - it simply is a super solid map that deserves to be remembered even though I’m apparently the only one who does. Deepatak is what comes out if you puke up all the most awesome elements of 90s mapping/modding into a blender. That’s not an insult! It’s kind of disgusting but hot damn this thing is fun! Idk if it can be called underrated, I know at some point it was sorta popular since it used to come with DeePsea so perhaps a lot of people have seen it, but it’s big, fun and easily worth your time. Also that What Is Love MIDI... just fucking 👌. Maybe the fact that it was a tad messy and kinda gross, yet very effective was supposed to be a representation of DeePsea itself. If that was the goal then it hit the mark, spot-on (yeah I went there!!) None of those get the love they deserve, but they all had an enormous impact on my wad designing approach, the inspiration is strong. In their own ways they made me extremely eager to get into wad building. ..If anyone actually read all this, I commend you! Edited April 19, 2021 by Doomkid 17 Quote Share this post Link to post
valkiriforce Posted April 20, 2021 @Doomkid Very well-worded post - I think you've managed to put into words something I've never been able to properly express in my own experience. There's tons of great stuff being pumped out for Doom all the time and I get a kick out of a lot of these amazing projects, but there is something to that older style that really strikes me the same way I was when beginning to dip into the whole community scene of fan-made content. I think that's why my list mostly consists of those experiences as well since they were the levels that forever left an impression on me. All the same - way too many amazing maps from all you best Doom folks out there to even begin to keep up with. 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted April 20, 2021 Yes, picking 10 maps out of thousands is a total brain-squeezer, if that phrase exists. My choices are a combination of "biggest impact"/"most fun"/"replay still great", also they don't exactly encapsulate all my favorite things in doom, because the list would otherwise be way above 100 candidates, but they are what my brain came up with in the moment, and I agree with my brain. So, in no particular order: Plutonia 2 MAP17 Sacrament MAP13 BTSX E2M1 Armadosia MAP21 Sunlust MAP18 Urania MAP04 No End In Sight E4M6 Ancient Aliens MAP31 Memento Mori II MAP04 REKKR E4M9 I was doing writings in a text file so I may update later with brief comments on why I picked these. I have additional lots of honorable mentions, lots of, uhh, runner-ups, and the like... 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
Phobus Posted April 20, 2021 @Doomkid I feel like I got round the problem you’ve described so well by looking at significant maps from back when I could easily remember what was what. If they’ve not stayed memorable and distinct, then it doesn’t matter how good they may have been at the time! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
Chris Hansen Posted April 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Doomkid said: I see some people here who are like walking encyclopedias of their favorite Doom mapsets. I'm impressed by that, and a little bit jealous. Some time between the 30th and 50th and 100th and 1000th WAD I played, I lost most of my ability to remember where one ends and the next one begins, with a few rare exceptions - and even with those, I remember the "wad as a whole" and would never be able to recall which stand-out bits came from which specific map within the wad. In this thread and various others of a similar nature, I see people being like "Yeah, that spot 1/3rd of the way through Eviternity Map22? That shit is my jam" and I'm just thinking damn, I wish I still had that ol' starry-eyed feeling when playing wads, where I can remember a particular spot in a particular wad with fond reverence! That's a real rarity for me these days. Still, there's no way I'd trade the technical understanding for the aforementioned sense of "magic and mystery". Fun as that is (was), mapping and modding, and in some cases teaching others, gives me greater joy than that childlike-wonder ever did. Thank you for reading my mind and putting into words exactly how I feel! Well said, sir, well said. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) I must admit I am going to struggle too, but I guess I will simply note down some great doom experiences outside of the IWads. Just a list and this could be in any order. 1. Corporate Hell (Map28 from MM2) - Honestly I was impressed at the scale of this map and how it actually works surprisingly well by comprising the action over several smaller stories within a gigantic tower block. Also I really like the midi track here. MM2 is in my opinion the best classic mega wad (MM was to rough around the edges and Requiem felt more like style over substance in many cases). 2. 3000 AD (Map19 from Scythe) - Scythe might feel dated, but some of the middle episode still looks solid today and is very accessible to the large majority of players. This map is larger than the majority of the maps in this set and allows for a solid ten minute romp through this Futuristic tech base. A good difficulty pitch makes for a really fun map. Honourable mentions to maps 16 and 17 here as well. 3. Hillside Siege (Map06 from Alien Vendetta) - AV arrives here in style, for anyone would had got through the first five maps wondering what the fuss was about, then this map is going to be a real learning curve. It is visually pleasing even to today’s standards and it really left an impression on me, even to this day. 4. Iron Exuviae (Map31 from Nova (The birth)) - I have fond memories of Nova because of being involved in the project. This was the point Dobu arrived on the scene big time with a map truly worthy of a secret map. A big immersive metal superstructure riddles with puzzles and no combat unless you find the secret route to the map32 exit. Whilst Dobu may have surpassed this level, this truly was a eye opening experience a completely different interpretation of how to make doom maps. Yep I completely rebuilt the exit area of my map to make a fitting secret exit for this. 5. Dreamscape (Map06 from Speed of Doom) - The top of a very high peak for Darkwave, a more accessible map for casual players who might be overwhelmed by his later offerings. A gorgeous marriage of techbase a massive organic caverns that also were seen in maps02/04. It is a joy to play over and over again. Honourable mention to Map31, a great secret map. 6. The train is approaching (Map18 from Kama Sutra) - Oh look, it is almost a visual clone of Map06/24 from Alien Vendetta. This large non-linear romp is probably Gusta’s pinnacle, yes he made some truly impressive magnum opus-like maps (like Map29 or indeed Pl2 Map29), but I prefer this map overall. Again being in the middle of the wad makes this feel more accessible for crappy players like myself. 7. Insanity (Map26 from Going Down) - pretty much everything about this map showcases the power of boom can have with the entire level sinking into a complex mess of blood and flesh. A sight to behold from a mega wad that didn’t shy from complicated boom scripted set prices. 8. The Mancubian Candidate (Map07 from Valiant) - Did anyone else have that “Why didn’t I think of that” moment when playing this? Yeah Skillsaw hit this one out of the park, which is great because honestly I would have completely botched this. 9. Mutabor by Tourniquet - A tough choice for me as both this and Miasma were superb single level adventures. However I think this is a bigger achievement of mapping, sure Miasma is a glorious map but to build Mutabor with such constrained limits is a big thumbs up. 10. Netherworld Citadel (E3M7 from No End in Sight) - Big, complex, with tonnes of character. I thought I needed a UDoom map in this list, I think this is probably one of the showcase pieces from an excellent wad that starts out classic style and evolves into a monster by this point and beyond in episode 4. Top notch. Honourable mention - All of double impact, I just couldn’t put a single favourite that topped this map. Edited June 19, 2021 by cannonball 12 Quote Share this post Link to post
Omniarch Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Doomkid said: ..If anyone actually read all this, I commend you! I wonder this about my own gigapost, so we're in the same boat XD What you described in your rather lengthy opinion-qualification (not that I'm one to talk), specifically about the relationship between technical prowess and memorability, is something I can relate to, even though I am but a tiny Doom baby compared to the 'kid himself, a veritable Doom elder, despite what your username may imply ;) I think there is more to that point than simple over-exposure. Quite frankly, things like advanced detailing, complex multi-stage encounters or domineering architecture, let alone scripting or dynamic lighting or any other GZDoom wizardry, do not, in and of themselves, make a map interesting to me, and I can still remember the names of most of my favourite maps, so its not as though I'm jaded! Thing is, however impressive these technical achievements may be, in terms of 'wow-factor', all but the greatest wads pale in comparison to modern AAA titles, especially Souls games, which legitimately leave me speechless from visual spectacle alone. I do not come to Doom to be 'wowed', though that is surely a nice bonus when combined with other virtues, I come to it for the superb combat, abstract visuals and above all its infectious retro feel. I like Doom maps that move 'laterally', compared with the mainstream, aiming to take advantage of the game's unique qualities to create a truly original experience that I can't get anywhere else. Simply put, if I find a wad technically impressive but don't enjoy the experience for whatever reason, I don't feel even the slightest bit guilty about it. I'm perfectly content with respecting the skill that went into something whilst simultaneously acknowledging that it is simply not my cup of tea. My relationship with (G)ZDoom sets in general is like this, since the advanced features the engine provides are generally of little to no value to me. So I'm not sure an absence of 'wonder' is the root cause, at least not in my case. If you've seen my top ten (hard to miss, given that the post takes up half the page!), you'll notice that most of the maps there are limit-removing or even vanilla. What many of my picks lack in obvious technical prowess, they make up for in 'soul', for lack of a better term. That, and many are impressive in relation to their format, which is an entirely different matter. And so we come back to the illusive quality of 'soul', as any discussion about quality inevitably must. Frankly, in objective terms, I don't think such a thing exists. I've come to realize that when I refer to 'soul', I am actually just using the word to articulate the feeling that I get when a set's qualities align closely with my 'values'. Take No End In Sight, for example. To me, its most outstanding qualities are the following: 1) abstract level design that forces the player to interact with the environment in often novel ways 2) a strong sense of place for each individual map, loosely sorted into episodes based on theme to maintain a sense of consistency. 3) related to the above, a natural progression over the course of the set from a slightly subverted sense of normality in E1 to the demented, border-line sadistic insanity of E4M6 (which I covered in my earlier gigapost) This is just a rough outline, but just look how the above maps onto my personal 'values': 1) the thing I value most in a map is its ability to actively engage me with its geometry alone, whether that be through ingenious secrets, original progression, visual storytelling or all of the above. 2) another thing that I value strongly, related to but distinct from the above, is a sense of place. This quality is generally localized to the individual map, though it can be enhanced through wider context. Speaking of. 3) a sense of overall progression and context is important to me, at least when it comes to mapsets as opposed to stand alone maps. It is this value that makes me prefer Ultimate Doom over Doom 2, which I feel is lacking in this regard despite generally having much more interesting levels. 4) for lack of a better term, I like maps to be 'fun'. Shocker, right? What this means is that there is a limit to the value artsy-fartsy sets that emphasize the above at the expense of basic enjoyment. Three's A Crowd does this sometimes, though many of its maps are also really fun, so I'm not really complaining. Notice how NEIS maps (heh) pretty solidly onto the first three of those values? Of all the sets I've played, it aligns most closely with my values, and coincidentally has the strongest 'soul' out of any set I've played. Incidentally, skillsaw's stuff maps onto the latter three, which is why he's one of my favourites. Antares falls into the same camp. That's my theory, anyway. I kind of wandered off topic a bit, but whatever this is a forum, nothing wrong with a bit of rambling (I hope?). I would like to know if anyone else agrees, disagrees or has anything to add to the above points. Edited April 20, 2021 by Omniarch 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Diabolución Posted April 20, 2021 Will the Googlebots be able to parse so much original content of such a high quality out? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
LordEntr0py Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Omniarch said: [Omniarch's Advanced Doom Theory] This. Actually saving this post and taking notes, because I think this is on the fricking money. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
Lutrov71 Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/18/2021 at 8:21 AM, Dubbag said: oh man, I don't even know. I've played so many over the last 20 years I can't remember them all sorry. But I can however tell you my favorite map of all time though, it's "The View" by Thomas Lutrov from "Community Chest 2" or "Map 06". Same author of a WAD called "No Brakes" in 2005. https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/MAP27:_No_Brakes_(NDCP) IDK if he will ever see this, but thank you so much man because I have very fond memories with it going back as far as 16 years old and I'm 29 now. Hey man! I'm so stoked to hear that this is your favourite map of all time. I just happened to come across this post by pure chance (I haven't posted on this forum for well over a decade!) I'm also 29, so it turns out I made the map when I was only 12 years old. Anyway, thank you so much for the kind words. Feels good knowing something I made so long ago has brought joy to somebody :) 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
whybmonotacrab Posted April 20, 2021 Doom E1M3: The map where DOOM begins for me. It's the map I think of when I think of the original Doom. The pace is fast, the secrets are fun, and it's enjoyable from beginning to end. Valiant Map 27: This is a remake of not one, but two of my all time favourite Doom levels - and it manages to do them better than the originals! Fast, arcadey goodness that's great for letting off steam. Paradise Map 04: Fast, beautiful, and chaotic. Everything I love about Doom amplified through Tango's excellent gameplay mod. One of the most fun experiences you can have. Scythe Map 26: My first real exposure to anything relating to slaughter was a pleasant one. The best thing about this map is its placement. Most of Scythe is fairly easy - which is good when you're new to Doom - but then this map comes in and shows you the kind of overblown spectacle Doom can provide. Fucking glorious. Return to Hadron E1M4: The first map that really showcases the hit and run guerilla tactics Cannonball excels at. This one is one I return to quite often for a quick blast of UDoom goodness. Eviternity Map 03, 10, 11: Well, this was my first ever megawad, so there was bound to be some repeats. Whenever I watch people play Eviternity I see them say Map 03 is forgettable and I've finally learned it's ok to let them be wrong. It's one of those maps I enjoy coming back to and seeing how fights play out from different angles since it's so nonlinear. Map 10 has the second best midi I've ever heard and it's a visual and ludo delight. Map 11 has the best midi. I almost teared up when I first heard it. Not sure why it hit me so hard, but it did. Back to Saturn X E1 Map 24: Most of BTSX is good. I love the first 6 levels in particular, but after that they do bleed together a bit. The last map stands out by having one of the most insane arena battles in Doom history. Is it the toughest I've faced? No, but it's one of the coolest, that's for damn sure. Sunlust Map 01: I've only played the first 10 maps of Sunlust, so I haven't got to the really good stuff. That said, this is my favourite map 01 ever. It's lean, it's mean, and the midi is so good I bought the soundtrack to Flashback. Struggle Map 03: A map so damn good it inspired me to totally steal the first room make my first ever level. 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
roadworx Posted April 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, Lutrov71 said: Hey man! I'm so stoked to hear that this is your favourite map of all time. I just happened to come across this post by pure chance (I haven't posted on this forum for well over a decade!) I'm also 29, so it turns out I made the map when I was only 12 years old. Anyway, thank you so much for the kind words. Feels good knowing something I made so long ago has brought joy to somebody :) woah, 12 years old? that is insanely impressive for someone of that age 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted April 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Omniarch said: Thing is, however impressive these technical achievements may be, in terms of 'wow-factor', all but the greatest wads pale in comparison to modern AAA titles, especially Souls games, which legitimately leave me speechless from visual spectacle alone. I do not come to Doom to be 'wowed', though that is surely a nice bonus when combined with other virtues, I come to it for the superb combat, abstract visuals and above all its infectious retro feel. I like Doom maps that move 'laterally', compared with the mainstream, aiming to take advantage of the game's unique qualities to create a truly original experience that I can't get anywhere else. Simply put, if I find a wad technically impressive but don't enjoy the experience for whatever reason, I don't feel even the slightest bit guilty about it. I'm perfectly content with respecting the skill that went into something whilst simultaneously acknowledging that it is simply not my cup of tea. Big same. And the AAA comparison was exactly how I've thought of it. In my favorite Wowing Doom Maps, the wowiness is generally secondary to some other strong qualities. (Which in turn means that those qualities are really strong if they outpace the overt impressiveness of such a map.) Generally, wads that are more about that sort of "lateral" artistic expression -- Going Down, Nanka Kurashiki maps, myhouse.wads, and yes maps like Culture Shock and Eviternity m15/m26 (visually these are actually deceptively simple) and even things like Breach and Brigandine (for all the sheer fidelity of these, there is the sense that every construct and detail is painstakingly fussed-over to look as good as it can, not piled on in haste for the sake of fidelity) -- are timeless. A wad that stakes its value purely in technical achievement will look a lot less impressive to people 10 years in the future, when even more impressive things have come along. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
Omniarch Posted April 20, 2021 54 minutes ago, rd. said: Generally, wads that are more about that sort of "lateral" artistic expression -- Going Down, Nanka Kurashiki maps, myhouse.wads, and yes maps like Culture Shock and Eviternity m15/m26 (visually these are actually deceptively simple) and even things like Breach and Brigandine (for all the sheer fidelity of these, there is the sense that every construct and detail is painstakingly fussed-over to look as good as it can, not piled on in haste for the sake of fidelity) -- are timeless. A wad that stakes its value purely in technical achievement will look a lot less impressive to people 10 years in the future, when even more impressive things have come along. This. Very much of this. The maps you mentioned are all superb examples of what I was talking about. I'd add onto that Kim Andre-Malde's contributions to Alien Vendetta, which are similarly timeless in their execution. The pursuit of fidelity for fidelity's sake is the bane of the modern games industry, ballooning budgets whilst failing to meaningfully improve visual appeal. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
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