What are the best Doom "Miniwads" out there?

[JXC]

Title says it all. Do Doom wads have to be 32 maps long to be enjoyable? 

Edited August 25, 2020 by JXC
Title was ambiguous

[TheNoob_Gamer]

This should have been titled "What are some good Doom MINIWADs", because there have been countless notable single-map WADs throughout the years.

Edited July 1, 2020 by TheNoob_Gamer

[Deadwing]

32 maps is definitely a bit overkill, especially due to how big some individual maps in the set can get, but in other hand I like the sense of progression + consistency a one-man megawad (or mostly, or even a mapset created by a short team) can bring opposed to shorter wads or compilation megawads.

[Gez]

4 hours ago, JXC said:

Do Doom wads have to be 32 maps long to be enjoyable? 

No. A single map can be perfectly enjoyable on its own.

 

 

Also "map" is a terrible unit of length. Take, for example, Echelon where the first few maps are all incredibly short (a leftover from the original idea, "Project PAR", in which each map could be maxed under par time...) and then take ZDCMP2 where playing through the single map will take you longer than some 32-map megawads out there.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

Valiant is probably as close as you can get to an all-killer-no-filler megawad.

[seed]

They don't, they can be short and sweet and work quite well.

 

The problem with 32 level megawads is that with such big wads you have to pretty much make every map worth playing, interesting, and reasonable in terms of length, otherwise it will just turn into a chore halfway through. If the players get bored or tired by that time, and their mindset shifts from "Oh man I SO want more of this" to "Uh... can this thing just end already? Please? Somebody kill me... ", you've done something wrong.

Edited July 1, 2020 by seed

[Mr. Freeze]

Alien Vendetta and Hell Revealed are very consistently good. 

[Phobus]

I think those old answers, particularly HR, don't carry the weight they used to. People have pushed the format a lot further now and there's way more nuance to challenge than stacking rooms full of bodies.

 

The best megaWAD experience, for me, is one with plenty of quick progress. A one-man megaWAD by an author whose work you really like is pretty much the ideal here, so if you're after consistent quality that won't bog you down in a lengthy playing experience, go after something like Khorus' Speedy Shit or Mini-level MegaWAd, IMO.

 

If you want a collection of "magnum opus" grade maps, a big community project like BtSX or a more recent Community Chest might do you some good, but obviously the more authors there are, the more likely you are not to like one, even with the kind of quality control the BtSX team employs!

 

 

To answer the OP question seems redundant, at this point, but I'll chip in anyway. An awesome single map is basically as good as things get, as you can pick the size and style to suit your needs, rather than having a potentially random selection to work through. A short episode might work even better, as you can get a narrative, or difficulty curve with some breaks and "wins" to keep you motivated. The DBPs are pretty solid examples of this, where you play 6-12 maps (roughly) in a given theme, roughly arranged by difficulty, sometimes with some narrative over the top, and some decent play testing and quality control put in over the month of development. The bite-sized nature of a good episode also means they're easier to try without fearing for wasted time if it turns out you don't like it a few maps in!

[Big Ol Billy]

Tbh I think the 32-map/no-episodes structure was a mistake to begin with on id’s part. It’s just too long and wonky to balance for continuous. I think continuous-friendly “episode” lengths are usually the most ideal for me, since I do think continuous play adds its own interesting wrinkles (paired with, say, pistol restarts on death).

 

There have been a few clever designers in the community that have done the 32-map structure arguably better than the originators (Going Down and Swift Death are the real standouts for me). I’m halfway through Phob’s new megawad, which has also warmed my feelings a bit towards the old D2 structure, but I’m still fundamentally full-megawad-suspicious.

[Uni]

2 hours ago, Marn said:

Valiant is probably as close as you can get to an all-killer-no-filler megawad.

Obviously this is strictly a matter of taste but the third episode in Valiant always felt super filler to me, one of the few reasons why I couldn't get through the entire thing in the first place. With that said, Valiant is very high quality.

[P41R47]

Espi's Suspended in Dusk is a 4 levels mapset. And is one of the best and most influential out there. No other vanilla mapset come near to it level of details, atmosphere and amazing map design.

So yeah, just 4 maps that are almost unmatched to this day on it quality.

 

BTSX is inspired greatly on it.

Edited July 1, 2020 by P41R47

[Loud Silence]

Word "megawad" makes me expect wad to be full of maps (32 or 36). Eviternity has both: Quality and Quantity.

When i see "megawads" with 9, 15 or 20 maps, i think they are unfinished, but that does not stop me from playing them.

[Doomkid]

As far as "the old batch" goes, Scythe 1 is proably my go-to example. I remember hating basically nothing in that wad. Even other wads I consider classics confused me or pissed me off at times with maps that felt artificially elongated via convoluted progression.

 

As others have said, wads that don't replace all 32 maps tend to be easier to get through just because they don't stretch on for so long.

 

.. Kind of a side point, but I think the boredom people experience when Dooming for too long in one sitting or in one WAD has lead to the phenomenon of people calling certain maps "filler". What IS a "filler" map, anyway? Mappers reading this, have you made one? I've never made a map where I was sitting there going "yep, this is filler". If I ever feel that way the map simply doesn't get made. As basic as my maps are, each linedef is placed with purpose...

Edited July 1, 2020 by Doomkid

[Nine Inch Heels]

SunLust

[smeghammer]

An oldie but one I always consider as having excellent level and gameplay throughout, that seems to 'feel' slightly different to vanilla (perhaps just because of the texture set) is UAC Ultra. It's 11 maps, so is not quite as intimidating perhaps as a full 32 map megawad.

 

Oh yeah, also I think Armadosia has consistently excellent, huge maps.

Edited July 1, 2020 by smeghammer

[Deadwing]

16 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

As far as "the old batch" goes, Scythe 1 is proably my go-to example. I remember hating basically nothing in that wad. Even other wads I consider classics confused me or pissed me off at times with maps that felt artificially elongated via convoluted progression.

 

As others have said, wads that don't replace all 32 maps tend to be easier to get through just because they don't stretch on for so long.

 

.. Kind of a side point, but I think the boredom people experience when Dooming for too long in one sitting or in one WAD has lead to the phenomenon of people calling certain maps "filler". What IS a "filler" map, anyway? Mappers reading this, have you made one? I've never made a map where I was sitting there going "yep, this is filler". If I ever feel that way the map simply doesn't get made. As basic as my maps are, each linedef is placed with purpose...

 

For me filler is a map without a strong concept or identity, or maybe repeating ideas. I think it's a map that doesn't add much to the experience of the whole wad.

 

I didn't create a filler map, at least not consciously, but for some people some maps in Exomoon and Moonblood definitely felt like filler, and I gotta agree with them in some cases.

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, Loud Silence said:

Eviternity has both: Quality and Quantity.

 

^This. For a 32-map megawad, Eviternity has surprisingly little filler in it. Only maps 8 and 17 of Eviternity have a slight "filler" feel to them and even those are not bad maps by themselves.

[Phobus]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Kind of a side point, but I think the boredom people experience when Dooming for too long in one sitting or in one WAD has lead to the phenomenon of people calling certain maps "filler". What IS a "filler" map, anyway? Mappers reading this, have you made one? I've never made a map where I was sitting there going "yep, this is filler". If I ever feel that way the map simply doesn't get made.

I very much map filler. For me, if the map doesn't have a major gimmick, and I'm just chucking in some "good old-fashioned Doom" to have some incidental combat and a bit of an open space or some corridors to navigate between gimmicks, puzzle, set-pieces or objectives, I'm just mapping filler. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Well-crafted filler is infinitely preferably to me than an exhausting slog through endless set-pieces or whatever. It's what put me off of playing megaWADs for a while back in the mid '10s - it all got so rote and predictable that everything was trapped and every trap was basically an arena. I love a bit of an adventure or journey, and a lot of that is conveyed by having places to go through that aren't the main event.

[Solmyr]

Going Down

[Grain of Salt]

On 7/1/2020 at 12:30 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

SunLust

 

Yeah it's sunlust.

[Biodegradable]

Smeghammer already mentioned UAC Ultra, so I'll say Coffee Break since that's another 11-map WAD I also played recently that's really good.

[Endless]

On 7/1/2020 at 3:57 AM, Mr. Freeze said:

Alien Vendetta and Hell Revealed are very consistently good. 

Tho, not for everyone, at least AV its pretty normal for the first 20 levels, after that is insane, and Hell Revealed goes even higher. Iconic maps indeed, but maybe a bit to tough for most players.

Just AV is long as heck:

Spoiler

 

I would recommend both Doom the Wad Id Did.

And again, Eviternity.

[galileo31dos01]

On 7/1/2020 at 8:30 AM, Nine Inch Heels said:

SunLust

 

1 hour ago, Grain of Salt said:

Yeah it's sunlust.

 

mhm it's Sunlust.

[Uncle 80]

Vanguard comes to mind. Of course, the first and maybe second map suffers from "introductory map syndrome", but anything from map03 and onwards is highly enjoyable.

[DSC]

IMO, Eviternity. All killer all the way. And, although I haven't played it myself much, Sunlust looks like a big contender too.

EDIT: Some people have also mentioned Valiant, but, with all due respect, I've got to disagree completely. Its an extremely repetitive megawad visually and gameplay wise, which adds a lot to the filler department.

Edited July 5, 2020 by DSC

[JXC]

On 7/1/2020 at 4:28 AM, TheNoob_Gamer said:

This should have been titled "What are some good Doom MINIWADs", because there have been countless notable single-map WADs throughout the years.

I didn't know that there's a term called miniwad.

[RottingZombie]

SIGIL is pretty good. Is that what you mean by miniwad, OP?

[JXC]

Just now, RottingZombie said:

SIGIL is pretty good. Is that what you mean by miniwad, OP?

Yes, anything from a single map to an episode. I clarify that on... 

 

[RottingZombie]

I'd also recommend the Darkening I & II. Make sure to mute the music in II though. It's pretty terrible IMO.

[PasokonDeacon]

I'm very much in favor of non-traditional megawad sizes, as 32 is hard to get right without slimming down your average playtimes and getting the pacing just right per map and per loose map grouping. My first large-scale project will likely just be an episode or mini-episode, for instance. Occasionally a full 32-map pack might hit just damn right despite the odds, but I think it's an easy way to burnout, either as a mapper or a player, unless the whole thing was speedmapped or planned out very carefully.

 

Examples of great miniwads that I've played:

• Vanguard and Lunatic (skillsaw prototyping his work on Valiant in shorter bits, just as punchy and polished)
• Suspended in Dusk (immaculate, forward-thinking vanilla mapping from Espi at his peak)
• The Darkening Episode II (still a really fun, classic yet modern techbase suite that presaged OTEX)
• SlayeR (a bit rough around the edges, but full of devious traps and cool IWAD-plus style by Wiles)
• Double Impact (probably my favorite Ultimate Doom E1 replacement set, full of crazy set-ups)
• Counterattack (Mechadon going nuts with huge but very replayable post-modern adventures)
• Mordeth (jokes aside, this partial conversion holds up damn well and deserves more attention)
• Skepland (absolutely brutal experiment in making clinical, sprawling Plutonia gauntlets)