Based Refueling (yet another first map)

[StarTanned]

Hi folks, yet another newbie here. I just wanted to share my first map before final release to gather feedback. It's a single-player take on Refueling Base (Doom2 format, limit-removing, in map01). Difficulties are implemented. Jumping/crouching/freelook shouldn't break anything as far as I can tell. It's on the long side with lots to explore, but I also tried to make it fairly tough with some tricky fights, so I hope it's not too convoluted or frustrating. Suggestions are certainly welcome!

 

I intentionally limited myself to only vanilla mapping tech (with a couple of flourishes for optional stuff like the sky/level name graphic). Made with SLADE on MacOS (thanks @sirjuddington!). Tested in Crispy, prBoom+, GZDoom and DSDA. MIDI is "Plummeting" by Bucket (Plutonia MIDI pack map 15). Textures are all from Final Doom (with some light hand edits and remixing c/o GIMP and SLADE).

 

PS: the level retains the original's darker/moodier aesthetic, so it might be necessary to bump up gamma in GZDoom or other hardware accelerated ports. complevel 2 or 9 both seem to work fine.

 

Download from:

• idgames: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/basedref
• DoomShack: https://doomshack.org/uploads/basedref.zip

• Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wkLTTi2_n6grBpjQEnMAuxI00w2PU4Ux/view?usp=sharing
  

Screenshots in the spoiler

Spoiler

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by StarTanned
Bugfix is now up

[StarTanned]

Yeah, I might have gone overboard there in hindsight! (But the advice in the pinned topic to post screenshots made it feel like I should, so I went ahead)

[Sesamia]

You could put the screenshots in a spoiler.

 

I played for a few minutes and the map looks and plays great.  I'll come back to it sometime soon to finish it.

[StarTanned]

Good thinking. I've gone ahead and done that.

[Stupid Bunny]

They are impressive screenshots though, and having started in it's a damned impressive map too. At first I was like "wow this is a great remaster of Refueling Base", but after a few minutes with it it quickly became clear that this was something more. It definitely is kicking my ass in exactly the same way Refueling Base did, but on a much grander scale--constantly under fire from all directions by a huge number of enemies, looped around inside an intricately interconnecting map. As many monsters are crammed into the map, though, there's always just enough space and health to eke it out if I'm persistent, at least so far. I'll try and be back again with more full commentary.

 

I haven't beaten it yet...I may have to start it again at a lower difficulty haha. It looks fantastic though and I love the layout. It's a great take on one of the better Doom II maps. Congrats on having such a cool first map.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Stupid Bunny

[StarTanned]

7 minutes ago, Stupid Bunny said:

I haven't beaten it yet...I may have to start it again at a lower difficulty haha. It looks fantastic though and I love the layout. It's a great take on one of the better Doom II maps. Congrats on having such a cool first map.

 

As long as it's fun! It might do with some re-balancing, but we'll see.

 

I've been away from the Doom community for a looong time, so I don't really know if I went overboard, making difficulty levels a must. I tried to keep HMP in the same spirit as UV, with the easier difficulties more of a romp than a slaughter-ish experience, for those who are more into exploring (and it's likely worth exploring anyway, if I managed to pull off the final fight with any success, as there's a lot of assistance tucked away).

 

Oh, and don't worry: I haven't removed all of the old secrets the original map had, so if the start's a bit too spicy...

Edited February 26, 2023 by StarTanned

[Stupid Bunny]

3 minutes ago, StarTanned said:

Oh, and don't worry: I haven't removed all of the old secrets the original map had, so if the start's a bit too spicy...

Oh don’t think it wasn’t the first thing I tried to do ;3

 

I doubt you went overboard—I’m not the most masterful Doom player even after all these years. At the very least I’d wait for a second opinion before tweaking too much. This is what difficulty settings are for, after all.

[Ravendesk]

Finished this on UV (just the exit, not maxed, some kills and secrets were missed).

 

Here is fda: basedref01-00003.zip

It was recorded with dsda-doom 0.25.6, and you would need the same version to play it back.

 

This is a very good map, visuals are amazing (with recognizable original map sections). Especially the cavy stuff, I think it works very well to contrast tech base parts. Also a lot of creative vanilla textures usages, very nice. I also liked the layout a lot, areas are nicely interconnected, map transforms quite a few times to connect areas and create new shortcuts, good stuff.

 

The only thing I think can be worked on in this map is the combat. Most of the fights follow the same formula "here is a large room and a bunch of random enemies", which is not a bad fight design per se, but in a map that long (fda was 40 minutes), I feel like it gets repetitive. The enemy roster also doesn't change much, you have that mix of shotgunners, pinkies and pain elementals (and every other enemy as well tbh) from the very first to the very last fight. Might be worth experimenting with limited amount of monster types per fight to create more combat-puzzly setups (but of course not everyone likes that, so feel free to ignore me).

However, some fights were quite nice. The ones I think stand out is the very starting fight, it has that kind of trial-and-error aspect to it, where you need to figure out how to get initial resources to get things going. Another memorable fight is the yellow key fight after you grab the yellow key and archvile turrets spawn. And I also really liked the final fight with a sniping cyber - this one actually changes the formula by adding that sniping cyber and making it a pretty cool arena encounter (although I guess you can rush him early? didn't try).

 

Also good map name.

[PeterMoro]

Looks fantastic! Nice one.

[Gothic Box]

Very nice detailing and (vanilla!) texture work, nice secret design and out of bounds areas, plus I like the clean automap. Got half the secrets and 666/676 kills in 1 hr 2 minutes, although it took me ~2 hours total to beat. I do agree with Ravendesk about the combat; most fights lean towards the "kitchen sink" approach, although it didn't detract from the overall experience too much. This is quite a promising first map, especially considering the scale of it.

[sandwedge]

Hey really enjoyed playing this, was bigger and more challenging than I expected and had a ton of cool optional areas - video and more thoughts incoming later this week.  Only issue I had was couldn't find a way to leave the final area to go explore all the cool optional areas that were left.  Unless I missed it, I'd recommend having a way to go back, either teleport or switch or something at the very end.  Just a quick fix you could make before the vid goes public later! :)

[Sesamia]

I love the cave sections in the map.  The combat was a bit of a mixed bag, but overall it was fine.  The only section that gave me a bunch of trouble was the hitscanner "maze" with all the green tech textures.  I think the initial hitscanner barrage is fine, but the following encounter after grabbing the key was really oppressive.  With so many ways to approach the map, it's possible that I went there too early and wasn't well equipped enough for it.

 

Grabbing the red key first (with no yellow key) and then going through the red door to engage the cyber demon appears to soft lock the player.  As mentioned by others, it would be nice to be able to exit that room at some point anyway to explore other areas of the map.

 

The BFG red bars aren't what you need to press to activate them, so when I tried the first time they didn't open.  This initially threw me off to go look for a nearby switch, but eventually I tried again and opened them.  The bars themselves could be the lines used instead of the single line behind them.

 

I disliked how some of the pain elementals were used in the map.  This could have been remedied if I had a plasma gun & rocket launcher during some of those encounters.

 

Perhaps another rocket launcher could be given out a bit earlier.  The map is very non-linear, so it's quite easy to miss until you're well into the playthrough.  I didn't actually find a plasma gun at all.

 

I noticed some visual errors and I've posted the relevant screenshots in the following spoilers.

Played on GZDoom 4.9.0 with software rendering.

 

This sky ceiling showed up as a missing texture

Spoiler

 

 

Some of your midtextures bleed into the floor (I may have missed some):

Spoiler

 

 

The lighting effect used for these two ceiling lights can be visible on the floor from certain angles & heights (the floors need to be lowered further):

 

Spoiler

 

[Walter confetti]

Looks impressive for a first time mapper!

[StarTanned]

Oof, I can't believe that I missed that key softlock in the final room (or that my linedef trigger to re-open that last door was broken). On top of that, I didn't realize how few posts new users got before they were rate-limited by the forum. Or that DoomShack doesn't let you update your uploads (I clearly should have added RC1 to the upload's filename). As expected, I have a lot to learn!

 

At any rate, a big thank you for everyone's feedback and test-running! Special thanks to @Ravendesk for the demo (it helped a lot!) and @Sesamia for the very detailed notes.

 

I've released a quick version 1.1 download addressing a bunch of feedback, and will do a 1.2 when I have some more time to try to revamp the combat in some arenas, as I agree in hindsight that it's too samey (though I'm glad that the first few arenas and cave, last fight, and at least the first wave of the zombie "maze" are alright). At the very least I think I'll lighten up a bit on the pain elementals and try to do better than falling back on the kitchen sink approach in other arenas.

 

For now I've uploaded v1.1 to address these things that were found. Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/basedref-v1.1.wad (SHA1 966b96852923ee0e5f6271c58c777f2b3838baa1)

 

Changelog (v1.1):

• also add yellow bars in front of the red door so players don't softlock.
• add a more obvious switch at the top of the last stairs to unlock the red door so players can go back.
• move a linedef trigger so it isn't easy to skip it and prevent a pillar lowering for a bonus soulsphere.
• fix the red bars locking the BFG so they open more consistently.
• tweak the hitscanner "maze" a little in case players go there early and grab the key right away.
  • (hopefully) better-telegraph that picking up the key will start a big fight for attentive players.
  • add a rocketlauncher next to the key in case the player hasn't picked up the plasmarifle first.
  • increase the available health, armor bonuses, and rockets in the area a little.
  • change a pain elemental to a caco, as there are too many of the buggers already.
• add a plasmarifle in the lower/left area of the map on the broken lift.
• add a rocketlauncher in the arena with the BFG, for some relief in case the player goes there early.
• change the soulsphere/plasmarifle choice to a BFG/megasphere (and mark that area as a secret).
• move the chainsaw slightly.
• add some more armor bonuses around the map.
• add a few more explosive barrels to the final fight.
• fix a bunch of midtextures I missed which bled in software mode.
• fix the sky in the cave area in software rendering.
• fix the lighting effects for some ceiling lights.
• add a light strobe to a nearby computer panel and the door it opens to hopefully make it a little less subtle what opens that door.
• other minor texturing changes/realignments.

[sandwedge]

Put the vid out today, it's funny cuz I saw someone post a 45 minute demo and I guess I expected that length, but that probably didn't explore all the optional areas, and there are a TON.  Took me a fair bit longer but it was very enjoyable.  Map was also fiercer than I expected right off the bat and definitely played into your expectations of refueling base, packing in more ambushes and fights into familiar places.  Generally I thought parts were relentless and overwhelming but were interesting challenges for that, and your mileage may vary depending on what you're into, but I thought it was fun.  So many different themed areas too, I almost thought it was a shame that you could skip so much, and someone in my comments recommended making the final area door a blue key door and forcing a bit more exploration, but that's just one opinion.  Of course you fixed the issue with backtracking at the end so no worries there.  All in all this is a really impressive first published effort, and even though you put out a ton of screenshots I don't actually think it was too much, because it really got me to play it with how good it looked.  Great work, hope to see more in the future!

 

 

[StarTanned]

51 minutes ago, sandwedge said:

Generally I thought parts were relentless and overwhelming but were interesting challenges for that, and your mileage may vary depending on what you're into, but I thought it was fun.

 

Yes, that's precisely why I wanted to get folk's thoughts, so thanks so much for the video! It's already helping me figure out how to rebalance some parts (and the combat is definitely going to be rebalanced a fair bit in some areas to make it a touch less relentless and hopefully more interesting as the map goes on). I definitely picked a challenging map to balance for my first!

 

Hopefully I'll have enough spare time over the next week or so to get out a new version.

[StarTanned]

It seems like it's worth me making the exit require all three keys, so unless folks think it's already too long in the meantime, I think I'll do that (I'm already asking folks to play a long map anyway, so I might as well commit to being an ass!)

 

After playtesting more, I changed my mind. I just made it clear that it's the exit for folks who want to explore some more before completing the level.

Edited March 7, 2023 by StarTanned

[Phytolizer]

Awesome map. It's difficult to find a safe space, which makes it exciting.

 

Bug report: this lift goes way too low when you press it.
Map view:

[StarTanned]

6 minutes ago, Phytolizer said:

Bug report: this lift goes way too low when you press it

 

Lol, good catch. I'll have that fixed in the next release, thanks! Glad you had fun!

Edited February 28, 2023 by StarTanned

[Insaneprophet]

That was a very fun remake/reimagining of an already awesome level. Truely made it worth revisiting. I spent about an hour and a half exploring this one and honestly there was very little down time. Good job keeping the action going the entire time. I only missed one secret and a handful of enemies by the end but there did seem to be 2 or 3 areas I never found access to. Might just boot up my last save and see if I cant max this one. With the original Doom2 memorized for nearly 30 years I for one would love playing an entire megawad with every original level given this treatment. That would be an extra special treat, as well as a mountian of work for anyone willing to attempt creating it. Anywho, thank you very much for making this.

[StarTanned]

Thanks, @Insaneprophet! I do wish I had time to shoot for the skies with something like that. At the least I would like to try to reimagine some of the more notorious maps in the iwads, to see how they might look if the team had a limit-removing port and more time to work on them. Maybe that's even a fun community project for the future? I know folks have made a lot of remakes over the years, but I don't recall seeing one yet which takes the approach this map does.

[Not Jabba]

Nice remake and very impressive for a first map. Refueling Base is one of the more interesting and fun D2 maps, and you've captured everything I liked about it (plus a few things I forgot) while making the nonlinear exploration and stash hunting feel better than the original. Capturing that abstract, malleable level design while also adding in all the details that make it feel like an actual refueling base is a treat.

 

Wow, it's been way too long since I played the iwad maps.

[StarTanned]

@Not Jabba thanks for playing, happy to hear you enjoyed it!

[StarTanned]

Just in case anyone is super interested in playing a version that's a lot closer to the final release, here's a link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WDio5R3lkeT6g9str3P4zMsaFhoJJbnb/view?usp=sharing

 

Tons of little tweaks and bugfixes, but the most important changes are to some of the fights (the tall grey room and the cave leading to it, and the dark garage). Early feedback suggests they're improvements on the original fights, or at least mix things up to keep the fights from getting too samey.

 

Some other key changes:

• slightly brightened up the dark areas where big fights take place, so it's still visually dark, but you're not unfairly impeded.
• added a plasma rifle and some rocket launchers in key places to entice exploring or ensure players have a reasonable weapon.
• added exit signs to the final doors to make it obvious in case you want to explore first before the final fight.
• added some more gore-detail or other clues to help telegraph when a big fight is imminent.
• made it more visually obvious that the tall grey room has a lift up to another area (so you won't think you're softlocked in there).
• changed up a few switches and doors to make their purpose more obvious, and to let players see into places and tempt exploration.
• made it super obvious when you're about to go on a certain wild ride if you continue moving forward.
• did my best to keep enemies from make sounds well before they actually come into play
• added some audio/video clues when switches don't actually do anything (I may just remove them entirely if that's less annoying)

I still have a bunch of little things I'd like to tweak, especially the placement of some gunners and enemies that are a bit superfluous, though it's starting to feel like the map is rapidly nearing a final state. I will also wait on some more input from playtesters (and hopefully one or two fresh pairs of eyes) just in case.

[StarTanned]

For anyone still waiting on final release, it's alllmost there. I'm just going to give another playtester a chance to try the level as-is, and hopefully there isn't too much more found to balance or fix before I call it a release.

Edited March 6, 2023 by StarTanned
i accidently a word

[reaction]

I'm excited to play the final release! You've picked a great map to homage and have nailed the looks, non-linear progression and sense of exploration. Great job, not even for a first map but just in general.

[StarTanned]

Thanks, @reaction, especially for pointing me at Nirvana's YouTube videos on monster roles :)  Now I'm having another good long think about monster placement, since there's a lot of room here to work with, and I'm genuinely curious about what I can come up with.

[Amiga Angel]

very impressive map, very cool! Amazing that this is your first map!

[reaction]

I'm excited to set what you come up with this new information @StarTanned 

 

This map will be a real banger cause the visuals, layout and flow are great. 

 

Props to @Nirvana for not only those tutorials but also the interviews.  They're filling the hole in my heart that evolution of the wad left.

[StarTanned]

@Amiga Angel: thanks! (btw, your nickname reminded me of two things.. well, three things, including Dread).