Looking for more great sadistically hard maps

[Plut]

Hi, everyone! I'm a hardcore Doom player and love a challenge that seems ridiculously impossible at first, but is so fun that it keeps drawing you back in (kinda like a Souls game). For me these are maps that have these qualities:

• they force you to be constantly sharp and on point, otherwise you'll get destroyed immediately
• they don't force you to wait or do a bunch of boring menial labor like circlestrafing around a horde for 20 minutes
• they're fun to explore and shoot around in, not too linear or combat-puzzly, they give the player some freedom in how they approach the battles

Here are some examples that I have loved:

• SkePLand by skepticist - my favorite WAD ever made. Brilliant sprawling nonlinear layouts, very quick combat and inventive traps
• Some Death-Destiny maps (especially No Chance)
• Love You With Poison by Memfis

Could anyone recommend some more of these?

[OniriA]

Sunder

[Captain POLAND]

Okuplok

 

 

[Shepardus]

I like how OP specifies "they don't force you to wait or do a bunch of boring menial labor like circlestrafing around a horde for 20 minutes" and the first two suggestions are notoriously grindy WADs.

 

Anyway, I would recommend Swift Death.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Shepardus

[Plut]

6 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

I like how OP specifies "they don't force you to wait or do a bunch of boring menial labor like circlestrafing around a horde for 20 minutes" and the first two suggestions are notoriously grindy WADs.

Can't see how SkePLand could be called grindy. MAP03 has some slaughtery moments, but those are still pretty fast because there's enough cells and rockets to deal with them quickly. Also, No Chance is definitely a slaughter, but the cool thing about the fights is that they don't lose their dangerousness quickly - you have to fight to survive until the end. 

Just launched Swift Death and it looks pretty fun, thanks!

[Shepardus]

Just now, Plut said:

Can't see how SkePLand could be called grindy.

I meant the first two replies, not your post, sorry for the confusion.

[Plut]

1 minute ago, Shepardus said:

I meant the first two replies, not your post, sorry for the confusion.

Oh, then definitely agree with you on that one.
And has anyone even ever completed Okuplok without saves :D?

[Shepardus]

4 minutes ago, Plut said:

Oh, then definitely agree with you on that one.
And has anyone even ever completed Okuplok without saves :D?

Coincident recently pulled off the first single-segment run on ITYTD difficulty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PP6iqrgIM8

[Lucius Wooding]

I'll go a different direction here and suggest NERF. Recently tried it out and it completely whooped my ass like few other WADs have. You'll probably need to figure out a plan for each map, but if you're not on point you'll die very quickly even if your skills are good. I couldn't even clear it on ITYTD, lmao.

 

Been watching a couple Doomtubers play NM in general and while it's a bit above my pay grade on most WADs, it could satisfy your particular desire for challenge without having long arduous maps.

[Gibbitudinous]

27 minutes ago, Lucius Wooding said:

I'll go a different direction here and suggest NERF. Recently tried it out and it completely whooped my ass like few other WADs have. You'll probably need to figure out a plan for each map, but if you're not on point you'll die very quickly even if your skills are good. I couldn't even clear it on ITYTD, lmao.

 

Been watching a couple Doomtubers play NM in general and while it's a bit above my pay grade on most WADs, it could satisfy your particular desire for challenge without having long arduous maps.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxXWssIn5PhGCuJK24nKEyHGqw4cTOLj5q

[DRON12261]

Rush (by Archi, 2014) is, in my opinion, the most non-choking and well-designed slaughter wad I've played.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Rush

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/rush

[Matthias]

I created a hard map for you

https://liquiddoom.net/upload/files/CHALLENGINGMAP.wad

 

You're welcome

Edited July 4, 2023 by Matthias (LiquidDoom)

[Plut]

16 minutes ago, Matthias (LiquidDoom) said:

I created a hard map for you

https://liquiddoom.net/upload/files/CHALLENGINGMAP.wad

 

You're welcome

2 EZ. Pacifist in 0:03. Also reality!

chalp-3.zip

Edited July 4, 2023 by Plut

[spineapple tea]

13 minutes ago, Matthias (LiquidDoom) said:

I created a hard map for you

https://liquiddoom.net/upload/files/CHALLENGINGMAP.wad

 

You're welcome

Took me like two minutes to beat. Try harder next time.

[Chookum]

Here's some suggestions, though I'll separate it by type of difficulty:

 

PLATFORMING/GIMMICKS: Frog and Toad, by Ribbiks, Toilet of the Gods, by Benjogami

FIGHTING/SLAUGHTER: Death in Excess, by NoReason or Italo Doom, by Ribbiks

HOPELESSNESS/SCALE: Abandon, by Benjogami et al., Sunder, by Insane Gazebo

BPRD VARIETY HOUR: The Nuts! Trilogy, The Mucus Flow and Grove, by BPRD

THE WRONG KIND OF DIFFICULT: Hell Revealed 2, by Jonas Feregen et al., Mock 2: The Speed of Stupid, by a whole bunch of silly people

 

Bonus:

I HAVE TO PLAY HOW MANY MAPS?: Any of the RAMPs, organised by DavidN

Edited July 4, 2023 by Chookum
+totg.wad

[Matthias]

27 minutes ago, spineapple tea said:

Took me like two minutes to beat. Try harder next time.

Pfff :D

 

Here, have this slightly more difficult version: https://liquiddoom.net/upload/files/CHALLENGINGMAP2.wad

[treulosetomate]

2 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

I'll go a different direction here and suggest NERF. Recently tried it out and it completely whooped my ass like few other WADs have. You'll probably need to figure out a plan for each map, but if you're not on point you'll die very quickly even if your skills are good.

 

Big fan of NERF here. Good suggestion. And I believe, this is the intended way to play those maps. You shouldn't expect to finish them on your first attempt like you would most maps on UV. That's why they are short. You practice them with saves or rewind, decide on a route, then make saveless attempts (or be content having finished them with saves). Most maps are fairly manageable once you know what to do.

[Cammy]

Nobody's said Sunlust yet, so on the offchance that OP doesn't know about Sunlust, I would recommend Sunlust.

[RataUnderground]

Italo Doom , give it a try.

[roadworx]

47 minutes ago, Cammy said:

Nobody's said Sunlust yet, so on the offchance that OP doesn't know about Sunlust, I would recommend Sunlust.

44 minutes ago, RataUnderground said:

Italo Doom , give it a try.

 

as op said in their post:

Quote

they're fun to explore and shoot around in, not too linear or combat-puzzly, they give the player some freedom in how they approach the battles

so idk if they'd find those to be fun

 

i wish i could give some recommendations, but i suck at doom, so the best i can recommend that fits your criteria would be like, plutonia 2 lol

[RataUnderground]

5 minutes ago, roadworx said:

 

as op said in their post:

 

Oh, right. I got stuck on the "not like okuplok" part. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by RataUnderground

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Chillax.

Wanna play a slaughter wad that will happily place a ton of Archviles on you whilst you're trying to escape a room? Chillax!

Want a wad that will be more than happy to make you face over 500 enemies at the start of it? Chillax!

Want a wad that is way too addicting even if it's brutal? Chillax! :D

[Roofi]

Pizza Steve

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Roofi

[Billa]

Most of the common suggestions like Okuplok or Chillax are dreadful maps by modern standards. I recommend Dance on the Water, Toilet of the Gods and the obligatory Dimensions. Although some maps might not fit your third requirement of having lots to explore

 

FCFF and Magnolia are 2 of my favourite wads ever, they're very puzzle and exploration heavy and UV is a punishing experience.

 

Seconding Swift Death and Italo Doom as well, although they're not as hard as the ones I linked and the maps tend to be very short, depends what you want

Edited July 4, 2023 by Billa

[cannonball]

Cydonia by Scotty/AD_79 - Very much goes down the Plutonia route and is very good and none of the maps are lengthy.

 

Plutonium Winds by Darkreaver - Again very much Plutonia inspired but with more personal touches in terms of how the gameplay goes.

 

Both may be a little too soft for your tastes but I would recommend something like this over something that will be guaranteed to include a lot of grindy gameplay.

Edited July 4, 2023 by cannonball

[vdgg]

4 Seasons of Doom (may be too easy for you, but who knows? )

[Mr. Alexander]

Italo Doom, like Sunlust, is by Ribbiks and Dannebubinga. Please don't forget the guy who made the other half of the maps.

 

I'm not a good enough player to make intelligent recommendations for difficult wads without the awful grind, but Billa's suggestions look sound.

[plums]

It doesn't exactly fit your checklist but you might be interested in Starbase 7. The first map is extremely hard in a "this obviously wasn't playtested at all" kind of way, and the second two weren't meant for pistol starts but are playable that way. Some grinding involved and relatively linear play, plus ugly graphics, but they're kind of fun in their own way.

[Plut]

Thank you all for your recommendations! Swift Death and Not Even Remotely Fair are the ones that grabbed me the most for now.

Btw, I also decided to try to get back into mapping and start working on a Quake-styled map. If you want something done well, do it yourself.

[volleyvalley]

I don't know if that's what you meant, but if you're looking for challenging vanilla levels, look no further than Hell Revealed I & II.