DBP65 - Sanguine Holy Land

[matador]

 

Sanguine Holy Land is a new episode for Doom 2 designed for limit removing source ports (complevel 2) made by the various members of Doomer Boards, lead by @BiZ. The project theme was marble temples and blood rituals.

 

>>> DOWNLOAD HERE (V2) <<<

 

Old versions:

Spoiler

>>> DOWNLOAD HERE (V1) <<<

 

Screenshots:

 

 

MAPLIST:

Spoiler

MAP01: "Bloody Pulpit" by @BiZ
MAP02: "Thief of Fire" by @suzerduzer
MAP03: "The Guest" by @DerBlanca
MAP04: "Sonar" by @SilverMiner
MAP05: "Into the Frying Pan" by @CittyKat112
MAP06: "Breaking and Entering" by @CittyKat112
MAP07: "Holy Molly Cathedral" by @RastaManGames

MAP08: "Lentus" by @SilverMiner
MAP09: "Gallows Eve" by @thehockster
MAP10: "The Ominous Church" by @Vanilla+Unicorn
MAP11: "Try the Wine" by @Rancid Sam
MAP12: "Laceration Forest" by shiroi
MAP13: "Primrose Path" by @BiZ
MAP14: "Sanguine Holy land" by @BiZ

Previous Projects:

Spoiler

2018:

Spoiler

-Monuments of Mars -Circle of Caina -Forest Swords -Xenomorph Base -Coffin Curse -Vicarious Reality

2019:

Spoiler

-The Merry Christmassy Doom Project -MINDBLOOD GENESIS -Legend of the Hidden Tech -Earth Ends -Lillywhite Lilith -Into The Storm -Alien Bastards! -After the Fall -Fuck Global Warming... This is Hell! -Cyb's Freaky Colonoscopy -Alone -Umbral Platinum -A Doomer Boards Christmas Carol

2020:

Spoiler

-Dungeons and Demons -Occult Secrets of the Third Reich on Mars -Biotech is Godzilla -Evil Egypt -Spaceballs: The Sequel: The Quest For More DBP Maps -Dead But Dreaming -The City of Damned Children -10 Day Vacation -Fear and Loathing -Morbid Autumn -The Magnificent Five -Santa's Outback Bender

2021:

Spoiler

-Tomatomania! -Rainy Days In Casablanca -Luminous Gloom -Stroggman's Tundra -Aquatic Wonder -AUGER;ZENITH -Chronicles of Ghost Town -Carnage Oasis -Funnelcake Apparitions -Hell Revealed III (Pt. 1) -Slime on Earth -Christmas In Inferno

2022:

Spoiler

-Japanese Valentines -Vrack Botanicals - Monuments of Mars 2 - Dreamcatcher Apparatus - Alien vs. Predator vs. Terminator vs. Jason vs. Hell vs. Steven Seagal - Mausoleum Nefarium - Emerald City - Deadly Ritual - Havoc in Creation - Plutonian Sunrise - Steamy Bathhouse - Jolly Junkyard

2023:

Spoiler

 

- Augustland Barrens - Shatter Realm - Immortal Warfare - Zeppelin Armada - Eldritch Voyage - Tempest Enterprise - Haunting Hollow - Terminal Voltage

 

 

2024:

Spoiler

The Vast Silence - Sanguine Holy Land (you are here) - Lunar Strain - ??? (DBP67) - ??? (DBP68) - ??? (DBP69?) - ??? (DBP70?)

Sidequests:

Spoiler

-Fall of Society

For (slightly) more DBP info, please check the Doom Wiki article!

 

Edited May 5 by matador
v2

[Pomps]

ohhhhh yes!!

[DreadWanderer]

Wooohoo new DBP! Great screens, looking forward to playing it!

[Broadsword Jim]

Ok, that looks amazing.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP04 crashes in GZDoom if you put up a nomonsters flag which is strange.

Edited April 13 by NuMetalManiak

[SilverMiner]

34 minutes ago, NuMetalManiak said:

MAP04 crashes in GZDoom if you put up a nomonsters flag which is strange. 

Thank you!

I seem to have fixed this now. Fixed map should appear in a bugfix (when it happens ofc)

[mancubian_candidate]

Good stuff folks, had a bit of free time today so here's an ol' UV-Fast of Map 1:

 

Will get back to the rest at some point :)

[SleepyVelvet]

Just a heads up:  I recommend saves. 

 

I'm at Map06 and have pretty much died at the last fight on every map while cl2 recording fdas before dying, they can lead you on.  Good maps tho.

 

edit: def some hard fights ahead too :)

 

edit2: here's and fda dump for the mother-borg noisy_DBP65_v1_fdas.zip

Edited April 14 by SleepyVelvet

[Ribbiks]

really cool maps! the final stretch was great, with map11 probably being my favorite dbp-related thing that I've played. the combination of high-polish + low-difficulty is rare to see in a tyson map, but is 1000% up my alley ;D

[DreadWanderer]

I've only got through 'Bloody Pulpit' and I can already tell it's going to be great. The Chrono Trigger music is perfect. I've also noticed quite a change in difficulty compared to previous DBPs....it's a tough map, and I barely got through the secret fight. Hopefully I'll be able to rise to the challenge :D

[Broadsword Jim]

Difficulties do not work.

[Devalaous]

Here we go again...

[Napeyear]

Looks incredible as usual, DBP always delivers :)

[Napeyear]

Apologies for double posting, but something I found on map05. Right before the final fight, if you bump your head on the ceiling as the lift goes back up, there is a HOM right under where the supercharge sits.

Spoiler

 

 

In addition, once this happens the medikit closest to the lift seems to clip onto it, rather than the floor where it was originally sitting. This was on latest GZDoom (not sure if that has anything to do with it but wanted to give details)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14 by Napeyear

[DjNeonC1990]

cant wait to try out this new, already promising looking DBP cooked meal of a Mapset~

Edited April 14 by DjNeonC1990

[Async Unicorn]

It was a pleasure to work with you, DB guys, I hope I'll make some new maps for future projects.

Hope you guys liked my MAP10, I tried my best to make it atmospheric, spooky, and engaging

 

(btw, hope i'll get a personal doomwiki article sometime...)

Edited April 14 by Vanilla+Unicorn

[SyntherAugustus]

I had a lot of fun with it, but there is one thing I need to report.

In GZDoom, you can bypass the key lock thing in map12 by running up to it. I don't think it's intentional since the keylock thing doesn't disappear.

 

Other than that, I really liked the atmosphere this time around!

Edited April 15 by SyntherAugustus

[MonsterZero]

the texture work looks grand. I'll have to try it out. 

[MonsterZero]

ok so i play things on brutal doom and as it happens all the vases turn into doom guys that will kill the shit out of you. so uh don't try this on BD ahahah.......

[BiZ]

Yeah we had the same problem with DBP54 compatibility and some mods since the vases replace the SSGuy. If a fix ever comes for that wad I will add it here as well.

 

On 4/13/2024 at 2:58 PM, Broadsword Jim said:

Difficulties do not work.

 

Sorry Jim, some maps do have difficulty settings, some don't. Thats just the nature of these projects. I will make an attempt to get difficulty settings from the mappers where they are missing before the wad is finalized.

 

Thanks again to all the mappers and especially the playtesters!

[DreadWanderer]

I think this topic about difficulties was covered in a previous DBP thread where I also posted but here's my view (again):

 

These projects are basically recurring 1 month (or rarely, 2 month) speedmapping sessions where most of the effort goes into other stuff like the aesthetic cohesion of the wad, the vibes, thematic unity, and even new mechanics like we saw in Zeppelin Armada. On that front, the results are consistently excellent. If somehow the focus would also include the implementation of difficulties - a complex issue in itself - then you have to give something up, which is time. Are you willing to wait, say, 3 or 4 months for a new DBP with fully implemented difficulties? I personally think it's not really worth it given the rhythm and the vision(s) that the teams established.

[DreadWanderer]

Finished this today. It's an excellent map set with a super pleasing and unique combination of aesthetics, and damn interesting (and hard!) fights.  I haven't found all the secrets because some of them seem pretty difficult or obscure. 2 things I want to flag:

1. The map ordering is a bit weird, I'm not saying that every single map set should go from easy to difficult and/or low monster count to high monster count, but the second half up to 'Laceration Forest' seems to have this issue of a pacing dip when compared to the quite intense and tricky first third or first half.

 

2. 'Primrose Path' is great but at the same time it's incredibly easy to get lost or miss key stuff due to how complex the layout is. A blind run took me about 45 minutes and even then I couldn't max it or find the (sole?) secret. It frequently feels like a Thief 1 or Thief 2 map where you have 20 entry points into a single crucial area, but the side paths are ultimately more interesting. While I definitely think that interconnectedness is a sign of good design, it's taken quite far here; a problem amplified by just how LARGE the map is. I'd wager that the "real" secret count including all sorts of hidden passages and switches is something closer to 10 or 15, yet I couldn't figure out the majority of these.

Loved it overall though, I know some new versions are on their way based on player feedback but I thought it would be useful to raise the points above for future projects maybe.

[Professor Hastig]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:19 AM, DreadWanderer said:

If somehow the focus would also include the implementation of difficulties - a complex issue in itself - then you have to give something up, which is time. Are you willing to wait, say, 3 or 4 months for a new DBP with fully implemented difficulties? I personally think it's not really worth it given the rhythm and the vision(s) that the teams established.

 

It is not my biggest problem of the DBP wads that difficulty settings are not implemented. My biggest issue is that difficulty is so inconsistent. Some maps have no setting at all, some have some token difficulty settings. Some maps have a moderate amount of monsters, others are overstuffed. The end result of this is rather low replay value of these map sets. They all look nice and are fine for a single playthrough but the persistent lack of even some token effort to smooth out the maps' difficulties really hurts them in my opinion.

 

[MonsterZero]

any other mod recommendations for this one?

 

[DreadWanderer]

23 minutes ago, Professor Hastig said:

 

It is not my biggest problem of the DBP wads that difficulty settings are not implemented. My biggest issue is that difficulty is so inconsistent. Some maps have no setting at all, some have some token difficulty settings. Some maps have a moderate amount of monsters, others are overstuffed. The end result of this is rather low replay value of these map sets. They all look nice and are fine for a single playthrough but the persistent lack of even some token effort to smooth out the maps' difficulties really hurts them in my opinion.

 

 

Ah well, I think this is a slightly different aspect. It has some connection to my criticism of map order and pacing, so I sympathize with this view. I don't know what to say about replay value per se - I've played every DBP at least once; twice in the case of sets where I decided to record UV max playthroughs for my channel. Almost every time I came back with excitement. Does this mean there aren't issues? Ofc not, there's always that "oh shit, it's THAT map" moment. But given how prolific the teams are, I personally don't put replayability at the center. And to be honest, there's wads that are much tighter combat-wise (according to some nebulous consensus) which I would not play twice because something else bothered me (it's beyond my skill level or the visuals are bland or the detailing is minimal and so on).

[SilverMiner]

3 hours ago, MonsterZero said:

any other mod recommendations for this one?

Sound reverberations mod like LiveReverb maybe

[AdamTheSlave]

Found a soft lock in map05, on a lock in fight, if you cross the line that activates the lockin a second time, then it locks you in permanantly. Can be fixed by converting to a W1 instead of a WR.

[Rancid Sam]

@AdamTheSlave Hey, saw that you also encountered a bug in MAP11 regarding the Berserk not triggering correctly at the start of the map.

Judging from your screenshot of MAP05, you seem to be using PrBoom+, and I was able to replicate the issue in that source port by playing with the default complevel, as well as with DSDA-Doom at "-complevel 9".

Running PrBoom+ with the "-complevel 2" argument seems to fix that issue. I apologize for any inconvenience.

[AdamTheSlave]

ahh, thanks @Rancid Sam guess I should have read the manual :D

[BiZ]

15 hours ago, DreadWanderer said:

Finished this today. It's an excellent map set with a super pleasing and unique combination of aesthetics, and damn interesting (and hard!) fights.  I haven't found all the secrets because some of them seem pretty difficult or obscure. 2 things I want to flag:

1. The map ordering is a bit weird, I'm not saying that every single map set should go from easy to difficult and/or low monster count to high monster count, but the second half up to 'Laceration Forest' seems to have this issue of a pacing dip when compared to the quite intense and tricky first third or first half.

 

2. 'Primrose Path' is great but at the same time it's incredibly easy to get lost or miss key stuff due to how complex the layout is. A blind run took me about 45 minutes and even then I couldn't max it or find the (sole?) secret. It frequently feels like a Thief 1 or Thief 2 map where you have 20 entry points into a single crucial area, but the side paths are ultimately more interesting. While I definitely think that interconnectedness is a sign of good design, it's taken quite far here; a problem amplified by just how LARGE the map is. I'd wager that the "real" secret count including all sorts of hidden passages and switches is something closer to 10 or 15, yet I couldn't figure out the majority of these.

Loved it overall though, I know some new versions are on their way based on player feedback but I thought it would be useful to raise the points above for future projects maybe.

 

Thanks for the feedback, its really appreciated. I guess I can handle both of these:

 

Spoiler

1.) I'll have to take 100% blame for this. We seemed to get quite a few tough maps this time around (maybe because of the baby cyber?) and I was a bit hesitant to just jam them all at the end of the wad at the risk of wearing the player out, especially after my map turned out so damn long. So I opted to sort of go the DBP50 route with a tough set of maps right in the middle of the wad, with the hope that there would be an early peak and then a bit of a downhill (difficulty-wise) afterwards for the player to recover before the final stretch...but perhaps this idea was flawed or not executed properly on my part. This is the first community project I have lead so I'm not really experienced enough to know if it was the correct call.

 

I've thought a bit about possibly re-ordering the maps in one of the upcoming bugfixes, and i may present the idea to the crew to gauge their opinions, but I think I am more inclined to leave it as is, as a reminder to do better in the future. This is a mantra our wayward mapping head-honcho has mentioned before, but only now does it make sense to me.

 

As for the start of the wad being pretty tough, I had recently played Cuppys masterwork DBP11 which had sort of a long and tough map in the first slot and so I took some inspiration from it for this wad (I guess also his style inspired my other work here as well).

 

2.) I think you are pretty spot on with the feedback on my map. This was a really experimental map for me as I have not made a "non-linear" map before and set about the task with no clear idea in mind at the start and drew the entire layout first without detailing or combat which was all shoe-horned in later. While I really enjoy this style of map and would like to explore it further, you are probably correct that DBPs are not the proper venue for such involved follies. The sole secret requires a bit of parkour from a high place, and a bit of shimmying around on ledges. I will tweak it in a patch to make the jump easier.

 

To combat the very long run-time of the map, I decided to allow exit with only one key, escape from the big final encounter, and the removal of all the secrets excepting one to provide 100% on the final screen. Consider everything else an easter egg for the inquisitive explorer, and perhaps a fleeting reason to return to the map someday when we are currently awash in an embarrassment of riches for content to play.

 

I know you like to collect items, so I apologize for this map, but at the same time, you do this to yourself :P (I would still love to see a video of the task).