[RC2] - Die Rowdy - 44 Maps, Boom Format

[BluePineapple72]

2 minutes ago, Donowa said:

it probably happens on other maps since those maps in particular were the ones that had the textscreens in the original doom 2

That is likely what is happening. Some text screens also do not have backgrounds at the moment. The plan was to make a txtscreen image but I forgot. Some have a preset texture and others don't. It'll be fixed in RC2.

 

Though for these nugget doom crash issues I don't know if I can add a UMAP 'skip' for the text screens that aren't supposed to be there. I'll look into it.

[Shepardus]

The crash has been fixed upstream in Woof, should make its way to Nugget Doom sooner or later.

[LadyMistDragon]

Ok, finally found the time for this. This might be a long-term project tbh :P

 

 

 

[BluePineapple72]

RC2 -

Added some temporary backdrops for textscreens

Updated a few maps that were... updated

[Demonologist]

So, it seems there won't be any demos for maps 21, 34 and 41 from the author of those, that's a real shame, although totally predictable. So much for a lot of playtesting that's fun to do.

[Grizzly Old B]

2 hours ago, BluePineapple72 said:

RC2 -

Added some temporary backdrops for textscreens

Updated a few maps that were... updated

Ah crap, I think I forgot to send you my updated map. Will do so in my (European) evening. Sorry!

[BluePineapple72]

5 hours ago, Grizzly Old B said:

Ah crap, I think I forgot to send you my updated map. Will do so in my (European) evening. Sorry!

I think I simply forgot to put it in. I’ll double check and put out a hot fix here soon

[Grizzly Old B]

9 hours ago, BluePineapple72 said:

I think I simply forgot to put it in. I’ll double check and put out a hot fix here soon

See update in Discord.

[BluePineapple72]

Just updated the RC2 link to have an updated Map12 that I forgot to include in the release. Not RC2.2 or whatever, same link and everything but the file is kinda different.

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[Azure_Horror]

Played some maps in a random order.

 

Some thoughts, in no particular order:

1) I really like map 23 Surprise! (awesome showcase of berserk in Rudy 2 res pack, and a an awesome weapon variety overall)

2) Map 21 feels like Evil knock off of map 21 (which is very strange from a level progression standpoint... One would expect a more difficult level to appear later in in the mapset...). Almost total lack of healing is obnoxious even when you compare it to your (stereo-)typical Hell Revealed 2 map, nevermind something less unforgiving. And berserking + enemy sourrounding combo gets old very fast.

3) This mapset really showcases the Pump Action SSG. The original RR2: powertrip was more focused on longer-range weapons, and as a result Punp Action SSG remained in the shadow. But this is such a beastly concept for a Doom 2 weapon! Great to see it getting full spotlight.

4) The Plasma rifle is a sour spot in Rudy's arsenal.

I think, it may be fun to take a page from Deadliset Demolition arsenal, and introduce DualWielded Plasma Rifles instead. Such armarment would fit Rudy very well, and it is also extremely fun to use, as the Deadliest Demolition shows!

Edited May 23 by Azure_Horror

[Demonologist]

@BluePineapple72 While it's understandable (certainly not commendable, but understandable) why the author of the maps mentioned above chose to remain silent - the lack of comment from the project management is somewhat saddening, as it begets the feeling that you're willing to let the issue slide. Respectfully - there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking participants to invest more into things that'd only help improve the product's quality, which, as I would humbly assume, is in everyone's best interest, is it not? There's a very good reason why all the renowned "hardcore" pwads involved rigorous playtesting, and often by well-known speedrunners with adequate expertise. If the inner playtesting crew (as long as it even exists) can't quite fit the bill, which is also a possibility - maybe it'd be appropriate to seek some outside help in such matters. Generally speaking, of course, and with no offense intended to anyone on said crew. It's all too easy to just stuff a map with all kinds of threats, then beat it with excessive savescumming, considering it's properly tested that way, and patronizingly remind anyone who voices their concerns that difficulty settings exist for a reason, we all know how that goes. Yet the aforementioned renowned pwads didn't come on top that way, that much is certain.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm certainly in no position to demand things, I'm merely asking you to maybe think about it, for this project and/or for future ones, as it would only make them fare better.

 

With that being said - please let me know if you want me to be more specific, and I'll gladly provide a detailed report instead of hollow generalizations. Then again, you could also state that all these things don't really concern you, which is... well, also a policy I suppose. Thank you for your attention in any case.

[Dynamo]

23 hours ago, Demonologist said:

There's a very good reason why all the renowned "hardcore" pwads involved rigorous playtesting, and often by well-known speedrunners with adequate expertise.

That's a colossal [citation needed] you have there my friend, considering how some of the best (and even some of the most challenging!) WADs out there absolutely do not fit the criteria you established above. Furthermore, I believe you've made your point clear already in your previous post and your seeming insistence is bordering on sealioning here. Let the kids have fun and all that jazz.

[Demonologist]

1 hour ago, Dynamo said:

considering how some of the best (and even some of the most challenging!) WADs out there absolutely do not fit the criteria you established above

Care to elaborate?

1 hour ago, Dynamo said:

I believe you've made your point clear already in your previous post and your seeming insistence is bordering on sealioning here

There's a difference between demo request (along with overt generalizations that might or might not be interpreted the same way they seem to you) and actually pointing out the lack of management-level playtesting/quality check with certain specifics, wouldn't you agree?

Still, if I didn't convey the message well enough and ended up sounding like a broken record - my apologies.

1 hour ago, Dynamo said:

Let the kids have fun and all that jazz.

Any published work is prone to be scrutinized, and criticism is a part of that process, so I don't see what's wrong.

Whatever the case - I certainly wasn't going to "insist" on anything furthermore, so we might as well leave it at that if you so desire.

Edited May 24 by Demonologist
phrasing/corrections

[BluePineapple72]

On 5/23/2024 at 10:13 AM, Demonologist said:

you're willing to let the issue slide. Respectfully - there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking participants to invest more into things that'd only help improve the product's quality, which, as I would humbly assume, is in everyone's best interest, is it not? There's a very good reason why all the renowned "hardcore" pwads involved rigorous playtesting, and often by well-known speedrunners with adequate expertise.

 

I will agree with you that these maps are very difficult. One could argue too difficult even perhaps. I've talked with Scionox before about the difficulty of these levels and about potential changes that could be made to mitigate the difficulty. But as it stands the maps are gonna stay as they are now as the author of the map intends to present them. And that goes for every level. I did not run this project, nor have I in the past, with any strict guidelines as to what sort of difficulty level I anticipate or would have wanted for a final release. Given that I never outright stated any rules as such it would be unfair of me to force a mapper to make any changes to the difficulty of said level. That being said, myself and my people have had some pretty long conversations over our project hiatus about future changes to our approach towards running events, particularly with a new focus on difficulty; super-balls hard levels are pain in the ass to test, being honest. As well they often usually stand out as outliers in a mapset drawing negative attention to themselves (see this thread).

 

 

On 5/23/2024 at 10:13 AM, Demonologist said:

Respectfully - there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking participants to invest more into things that'd only help improve the product's quality, which, as I would humbly assume, is in everyone's best interest, is it not? There's a very good reason why all the renowned "hardcore" pwads involved rigorous playtesting, and often by well-known speedrunners with adequate expertise. If the inner playtesting crew (as long as it even exists) can't quite fit the bill, which is also a possibility - maybe it'd be appropriate to seek some outside help in such matters.

...

Yet the aforementioned renowned pwads didn't come on top that way, that much is certain.

I will ask Scionox to reconsider the difficulty of these three levels. But! If no such changes are made I will not take any action in removing or altering the level pack to accommodate for difficulty. PUSS wads aren’t specifically contrived or curated for any given experience like you’d expect in something more refined or... serious like Ancient Aliens or Overboard. PUSS is a continual open submission community project series where we pretty much accept anything so long as it fits the rules of the event. I did not make a rule about difficulty. Bummer!

 

While I do enjoy putting effort into these compilations and dressing them up with the glamor and styling of a more formal project, the exercise of the series has always been sort of a mapper buffet that houses a few dozen different mappers each bringing their own styles and mapping preferences to help create a unique haberdash experience of several interpretations of a gimmick or theme. More importantly it allows for newer mappers to either practice with mapping tools and potentially get feedback from the wider community; it allows for the more seasoned to try new things with a unique resource pack; and it allows veterans to show off their stuff.

 

Speaking honestly, there have been several bad levels that I've accepted in the past, that I sort of wish I didn't. But being overtly critical or harsh to maps that, well frankly kind of suck, would be dishonest of me as someone who is willing to host events that anyone can join.

 

A lot of what I just typed out sort of gets away from the main point of level difficulty that's being discussed. To be curt, if any given player does not enjoy one of the 30+ levels in a set, then they can skip the level. No spilt milk to me. I'm not trying to earn a cacoaward. Nor am I particularly interested in impressing anybody with some sort of amazing high quality piece of free media. I make and run these events because I love mapping. I love compiling mapsets. I love seeing people's work and engaging them within a unique creative field that I feel lucky to a part of. I am not interested in creating a space where people will be antagonized and chased after with demands of them to prove themselves about the nature of a creative work they have submitted and entrusted to me to release as a part of a community project.

 

Again, with all that being said. Difficulty guidelines, in addition to playtime and map sizes, will be something that will have set guidelines for future projects.

 

^{(I am a bit rushed right now and need to leave the house so if I spelled anything wrong or if my grammar sucks and or slash don't make sense it isn't my fault)}

 

[Demonologist]

@BluePineapple72 I hear you loud and clear, thank you for such an elaborate answer, never really followed these projects so that clarifies things. Well then, I'll be out of your hair, sorry for any inconvenience caused.

[BluePineapple72]

1 hour ago, Demonologist said:

@BluePineapple72 I hear you loud and clear, thank you for such an elaborate answer, never really followed these projects so that clarifies things. Well then, I'll be out of your hair, sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Hey no worries! No inconvenience taken. Player feedback is always welcome and appreciated and it helps us temper what players are feeling. There sometimes tends to be a vast difference in taste between mappers and players haha!

[LadyMistDragon]

Eagerly awaiting Revenge of the Speeddemons btw!

 

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[BluePineapple72]

16 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

video

 

What source port are you playing on? Map12 is supposed to exit to map14

[LadyMistDragon]

6 hours ago, BluePineapple72 said:

 

What source port are you playing on? Map12 is supposed to exit to map14

Nugget Doom

 

 

[NecrumWarrior]

I did a test on Nugget just now and it went from 12 to 14 but crashed when loading the map. Also tested on DSDA and it worked fine.

Edited June 1 by NecrumWarrior

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[LadyMistDragon]

 

[LadyMistDragon]