fruity lerlups

im gonna sorta roulette these for my streams

Hell Revealed 2 is gonna go in my asmr playthroughs, no way am i doing anything like Sunlust or Hell Revealed trying to UV Max Single segment

I think yeah, if the map conveys to me "wanna make sure you got everything before you enter this portal", it can actually be kinda cool, but when its a surprise point of no return it can be frustrating. I mean even literally just having a sign that says "one way trip" behind a portal would be kinda cool. Especially if the map is aesthetically and tonally dualistic, but sometimes that can make you wonder if it should kust be 2 separate maps

ok but is the berserk or chainsaw really that much of a toss up? /jks

@Redneckerz you're too late to the flame war and I don't appreciate you trying to get it started again.

I've found sometimes like there are these amazing fights and part of the map that by pursuing 100%, you get to experience, a great example of this is in Rush Map09 The Lava Heart, there is a whole optional fight in a lava pit if you pursue all secrets and its a pretty fun one at that. As mentioned before, the 100% Kills 100% secrets for me is a benchmark or target that pushes me towards finding out all that has been placed in a map, thats why I pursue it, and I get sad when I miss it, I feel like I left a stone unturned.

ive sometimes thought about it would be cool to have a map that has like "pick your challenge" kinda thingy, but i'd insist on at least the monsters or something being killed by a crusher.. like "if you take the red key route you gotta deal with X challenge and get the rocket launcher", "if you take blue key route you get Y challenge and get plasma", but i'd be frustrated if that meant there's no way to 100% it at all.. so crushers and maybe a shared secret sector in each little route, that'd be kinda cool actually. Eventually speedrunners would probably figure out which route is the most optimal but it'd make for fun replay value.

Well i'll just concede that if you're not a completionist, then maybe the choice to have points of no return are not flaws. We all like different things, I just kinda was taken aback at how sorta, idunno, people talked down to me about this, i didn't expect people to be this heated about it. I suppose there are mappers who have a legitimate grievance with the demand to cater to completionists, I don't want you to feel like you have to change what you do for me, I'm just some kid who likes the challenge. I've already kinda had to pull back on trying to single segment UV-Max stuff, it just became unreasonable :(

Well for one i'm used to maps allowing me to backtrack and complete them, if you don't want your maps to be like that, thats fine, you do you, but clearly people enjoy this and I think its fair to express the opinion that it is desirable. If a map is designed to be a race to the finish with difficult opposition, then I think it'd be a nice category to communicate that for people who want it, and if a map is designed to be savored for every moment, then that should be communicated to. I personally don't feel that much satisfaction from just scraping by to the end, I want to devour every morsel, thats just me.

This is precisely what bothers me, especially when secrets are particularly obscure which the secrets in Scythe 2 can be pretty damn obscure at times. I do also find it frustrating when secrets completely change the progression/difficulty of a map, for example theres a berserk at the start of Canyon of Blood in Scythe 2 i foolishly missed, and a lot of the early map is very tysonable, so I did find it frustrating, but its worse when its like, ohh you want to kill the 4 cyberdemons at the end, well if you shot the cross at the start of the map then sr50d over the ledge and killed the commander keens hidden out of sight with infinitely tall explosions, you get to telefrag them, simplifying the fight and not forcing you to use the last of your remaining ammo hoping to god you don't run out. How were you meant to know that, ohh some guy analyzed the map in UDB to figure that one out.

Ok fine, then its my opinion, that I dislike the type of level design with a point of no return particularly when the secrets are obtuse, for me, getting secrets and kills is part of what I enjoy about the game, I don't feel like I experienced all a mapper put into the map without seeing all of that, so its "my intended way to play", and is my opinion shared by others. Hence why I asked, "does anyone else hate", not "debate: is it objectively wrong", clearly a lot of people don't mind, for me I like to leave no stone unturned, and I think a great reward for toughing it out of a difficult level is to be able to 100% it, thats my opinion. I didn't crap on anyone who felt otherwise, or crap on designers who made this choice, just expressed that I personally found it frustrating. For context this was Map23 of Scythe 2, brutally hard level, and I found myself very deflated at the end when I couldn't backtrack, thats just the way I play. Maybe its just my autism or whatever i guess.

Come to think of it one of my favourite things in really challenging maps is that cathartic march through the graveyard you left behind, where it was once loud it is now quiet, so I feel like getting to backtrack through the map is a huge part of my enjoyment of a really tough level, thats one of the reasons I like that final cleanup and look for secrets, i like that final breather. I think thats what I kinda feel like I missed out on in level 23, just kinda makes me feel, satisfied.

the difficulty is one thing, its just that dissappointment that at the end of it all, i couldn't march back, see the slaughter i left behind me, and finish up. I'll admit, there's something cathartic about that 100% kills 100% secrets.

yeah ive decided ill go back and do some of the levels that i didnt UV Max the first time, some of them are so exhausting so to go back after and repeat it for 100% if i really enjoyed the level. I can endure the fights in it, when they give you ammo and let you rip while dealing with tricky dances its fun, I actually loved the ending of Map23, and the yellow key room, some of it is sadistically tight but when its like, "here's your ammo and some nonsense, deal with this nonsense" I enjoy that, I think i'm gonna enjoy doing stuff like MSCP and Fast Food for this reason, but I also like the adventure aspect of a map, like Map 12 of Rush for me is so enjoyable.

yeah i tend to consult wikis towards the end if I don't uncover them myself HOWEVER.. man those maps where its like "WHERE'S THE AMMO?" then turns out there was a berserk secret at the start when you're already half way through it like.. cmon.. that completely changes the way the level plays.

ooh this looks good, i'll add these to my challenge lists, short punchy slaughter snacks!

For me going for 100% kills and secrets makes me engage with it and get to enjoy every fight that the mapper intended, I don't enjoy just rushing to an exit, I want to take every fight. Thats my disposition, if its not yours, thats ok.

thats what i wanted to discuss, not me finding the wad difficult. I don't want to whine but it feels like wow its such a sin to say the Scythe 2 is hard, of course it is, I expected it to be, I was more talking about disliking the design choice to have secrets and fights locked out in points of no return like you mentioned, thats what I want to discuss, so please, can we discuss that instead of people focusing on me saying Scythe 2 is hard, of course it is, I wanted a challenge.. but I wanted to comment on the soft locking, thats all. So can we discuss that?

i want to experience the whole map and every fight and every kill and every secret. Is that so wrong?

you completely missed my point. I didn't complain about the difficult fights, I complained about the softlocking out of secrets and kills.

I've been playing through Scythe2 and my patience with the mapset is starting to wear thin, i'm around map 23 right now but between the extremely difficult fights that basically force me to save between each of them rather than enjoy the map as a whole, and the hot starts which are a scramble for "what the hell do I do" to look for switches and weapons to actually progress, I find the most frustrating thing that as a reward for me choosing to take every fight, get every kill I can so I'm not just rng-ing to a finish line hoping to kite as many enemies as possible, my reward is a missing enemy and missing secret that I can't go back and find. It really makes all the hard work I do to actually just do every fight feel like its not worth it. Trying to 100% the levels should feel rewarding and when you deal with absolute nonsense, with fights that just feel cruel and sadistic, at least letting me have the satisfaction of getting 100% of the kills and secrets for your level would be a nice reward, but no. Alas I feel like i'm just frustrated with cruel level design, I want to be having fun but I'm just not enjoying these final levels. edit changed the title because clearly i made it more vitriolic than i intended

hehe I've done Rush, basically completed every level UV-Max single segment, but i'm switching to a streaming format for my UV Max stuff now and focusing on saved playthroughs with a chill voice for bigger things. If anybody sees this i'm gonna be doing some MSCP! Come watch me if you can i'll be streaming it 10AM AEST 01/06/2024 or 8PM EST 31/05/2024 depending on your timezone !! it'd be nice to have some people join in https://www.youtube.com/@fruitylerlups530/videos

im changing this to MSCP!!

i want a wad with some slaughter challenges but not super insanely difficult, short and punchy. Something I could figure out after a few tries, with short punchy slaughter arenas, something like Fast Food!

I'm planning a doom stream on Saturday AEST/Friday EST around 10am/8pm!! I'll be playing Ribbiks' Crumpets, attempting to UV-Max single segment each map after a try. Come watch and chat with me, maybe even set up a discord if you wanna VC! Check my youtube for that! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQEDSToVfG_EBHLeHHoKYpw